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06-26-2001, 06:49 AM | #31 | |
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Now do you still have free-will? Amen-Moses |
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06-26-2001, 08:10 AM | #32 |
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I think the definition of omniscient is being skewed.
1 : having infinite awareness, understanding, and insight 2 : possessed of universal or complete knowledge It's not that God should be all-knowing at any point within time, but should be all-knowing at every point within time simultaneously. |
06-26-2001, 11:00 AM | #33 |
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What if God taps me on the shoulder and tells me that I will do action a instead of ~A. Do I somehow lose my freewill? Can I still choose action ~A? What if I want to prove God wrong - can i then try and pick ~A? What would happen?
When God reveals some prophecy, does he not change the causal events? |
06-26-2001, 04:44 PM | #34 | |
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The concept of preexistance puts every soul on earth in heaven with God before we are born to earthly parents. This concept would naturally destroy any thought of free will, simply because human kind already knows God and what he expects. The basic thought is that God has sent each one of us to earth to learn how to be "Gods" in our own right. To learn the lessons of "divinity". When the lessons are learned, and God is satisfied that we in fact are ready, we return and are given worlds of our own to act as "Gods", in our own right. The verse that says "In my Fathers house are many mansions, I go therefore to prepare a place for you", is a veiled reference to the concept that there are many worlds like ours through out the universe. When you have learned the lessons of this life, you progress to other worlds as God's Iconic representatives, we become "Gods" ourselves. When the Bible says we were made in the image of God, it is saying that we all have the capability to be as "God". Now this is pretty far out doctrine and definately not mainstream Christianity. I dont think that based on Christian doctrine free will is possible, for the individual. As someone else posted, most of the Christian doctrines would have us believe that God has already chosen the few that will be "SAVED" and the ones who will not. If you are one of the 144,000 virgin males, you got nothing to worry about. If not, well, what can I say? It would seem that if God already knows who is returning to his side and who isnt, then the whole issue of free will has absolutely no bearing or is a non-issue in Christianity. It is well we remember that a large portion of Christian dogma revolves around the simplistic concept called "Gods Plan for the Salvation of Mankind". A divine plan..........a predetermined course of action for the human race. What says that there has to be a personal "free will"? Some theists say that it is a collective "free will". If the plan is for the collective species known as mankind, then our individual lives and actions mean nothing anyway. And the entire human race has free will collectively, to accept or reject God. I like the Mormon slant, I want to be God for a while. Can anyone imagine what life would be like with one of us heathens running the whole show??? Wolf |
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06-26-2001, 06:14 PM | #35 | |
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06-26-2001, 06:18 PM | #36 | |
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06-26-2001, 06:30 PM | #37 | |
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However, the fact that traditional Christianity does not believe in pre-existence should underline the importance of the doctrine of free-will to Christianity. GK Chesterton, a brilliant Christian writer from the early 1900's called a man's will the "dignity of his soul." It is a man's will that allows him to be king, even though it is in a small sphere. Without free-will, I think we are no men at all, merely pawns or robots. So it is paramount that humans have a free-will. AW Tozer, another Christian writer from the 1800's, likened God's overarching plan and man's free-will to an ocean liner crossing the ocean. It has a destination that it will certainly achieve, but the passengers on board are free to go about and make decisions. It is only an analogy, and perhaps a bad one, but I think it accurate. If our lives mean nothing, then why do we keep on living? Rather, the "collective free-will" is certainly made up of individuals. Yes, God will save whom He will save, but I have the choice to be instrumental in that or to miss out. It is dependant on my will. Peace. pfypher |
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06-26-2001, 08:15 PM | #38 | |
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However much you convolute the argument, free will remains a possibility. -Tercel |
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06-26-2001, 11:45 PM | #39 | ||
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06-27-2001, 08:38 AM | #40 | |
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One attempt I have seen to explain away the logical contradiction is that God only knows all possible actions you will take until you take them, i.e he knows all your possible choices and their outcomes. But in this case God's knowledge is no better than mine, if I am playing chess for example I know all possible moves and outcomes in advance but I don't know who is going to win the game. Amen-Moses |
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