Kosh

Wouldn't it be great if X-rays actually
worked like this. The things we could find!

Well, this should tip you off about the
accuracy of their claims, Plato
was a Greek!

What channel was this on and what was
it's name? Was it DSC, TLC, or [uhg]
Fox 31?

Ulrich

This particular theory does not originate with the KGB in the '60s, but with Robert Bauval and Adrian Gilbert, who wrote The Orion Mystery - Unlocking the Secrets of the Pyramids in 1997.

The theories they presented have been refuted by numerous Egyptologists, and one such treatment can be found here: http://users.interact.net.au/~pwaa/giza11.html

Some notable quote from the article:
Calculations show that the desired angle formed by the Orion's belt stars when they are at their culmination on the meridian on the southern horizon occurred in 12,500BC, not 10,500BC when the angles are not even close. The rotational motion of Orion around the sky ensures that the required angle is regularly achieved at other times of the day and night and thus Bauval and Gilbert are trying to be unduly highly selective and catching themselves out in the process.

and:
The ratio of the separation of the Giza Pyramids (Khufu-Khafre : Khafre-Menkaure) is 10 percent larger than the corresponding ratio of their counterparts in Orion (zeta - epsilon : epsilon - delta). Also the angular deviation of the smallest pyramid from the line connecting the peaks of the two largest pyramids is 32 percent larger than the deviation of Delta Orionis from the line connecting Zeta and Epsilon Orionis. These discrepancies cannot be resolved by the relative movement of the stars involved because all three stars have very low proper motions.

As far as claims of space aliens and their mummified bodies having been found in the pyramids, I would have to respond by saying that extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. This is certainly and extraordinary claim, what evidence can you provide us with that would verify it?

Ron Garrett

What extrabiblical evidence can you offer to substantiate the existence of the Penteteuch prior to Ezra walking out to the people post exile and saying look what we "found." How do you know the entire work was not compiled by Ezra?

Vorkosigan

Solid scholarship has dated the 5 books of Moses to the period hundreds of years after the alleged events in Exodus occurred, and there is no convincing archaeological evidence for the existence of the Hebrews in Egypt. Finkelstein and others have pointed out that the references in Exodus fit 8th century rather than 13th century events. Further, the 5 books are clearly from the hand of multiple authors.

See:

The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology and the Myth of Israel


The Mythic Past: Biblical Archaeology and the Myth of Israel


The Unauthorized Version: Truth and Fiction in the Bible

These three books should settle the issue, along with the Friedman book Nomad recommended, which is excellent. No serious scholar today thinks that Moses wrote the 5 books; today that position is held only by extreme conservatives.

Michael

Marduk

"A careful study of the confrontation between Moses and the Pharaoh reveals that the ten plagues were not just mere demonstrations of Yahweh’s power, but a direct confrontation with Egypt’s theological system."

One must be careful when speaking of 'Egypts Theological System', Unlike the Jews & Christians the Egyptians never cannonized their texts, The gods of Egypt and the stories concerning them changed from period to period to meet the needs of the Government and Preists, some times there were hundreds of gods, sometimes only one, sometimes a trinity or an Ennead depending on who was Pharoh and what time period you are talking about.
The 'Book of the Dead' does reveal an ancient star cult of Osiris, so he may well be the first, some scholars think he may have been a real person, but in such ancient times that it will never be known for sure.
I'd like to know about this KGB business, when were they ever allowed near Giza?
I's true that the tomb of Osiris was opened a year or so ago, near the watershaft near the pyramids, about 100 feet or so below ground, it took them days to pump the water out of there to get down that far, but the sarcoughacus was empty, just water. In fact Dr. Hawass the MC said it hadn't been looked at sinse the late 1930's I think, empty then too. ????

Are you sure you don't mean the CIA? in the 1970's they had a project 'Stargate' to investigate claims of the paranormal or whatever you call it, ESP, remote viewing, LSD, mind control etc. with such characters as Uri Geller & Ira 'the unicorn' Einhorn, "the Stargate Conspiracy" by lynne Picknett goes into great detail about this project and she does mention the CIA and members of The Stanford Research Institute poking around Giza and getting their dirty little fingers into many strange 'new age' pies. Quite a good book.

There are many crackpot books & theories about time machines, aliens and such under the pyramids, it's gotten so bad that the locals will invent new ones for you for a price. I really sort of like these stories but it's gotten to be way overdone in recent years, especially with the WWW.

[ August 30, 2001: Message edited by: marduck ]

Fairfield Porter

Seeker: I may not know as much about Egyptian mythology as you might think. Most of the information in my paper is indebted to John Currid, a professor of Old Testament. With regards to your question, I think that there are some Infidels here that are more familiar with the subject than I. I will give you my bibliography for the paper if you are interested. But referring to the KGB theory, it sounds very fanciful.

Fairfield Porter

Turtonm: How might you define "serious scholar" without appealing to his or her views of Mosaic authorship, which in this case would be tautological.

truthseekar

quote :kosh
-------------------------------------
What channel was this on and what was
it's name? Was it DSC, TLC, or [uhg]
Fox 31?

-------------------------------------------
kosh it was on ch 7 perth west australia about 3 to 4 wks ago and it was called THE KGB FILE`S

quote kosh
-----------------------------------------
Wouldn't it be great if X-rays actually
worked like this. The things we could find
-----------------------------------------
kosh are you kiding?? the whole damd american air force is underground, not to mention pine gap and newhamshire. comeon , the technology the governments of the world are way out there and alot of it is secret.
I have now problem believing this is and was posoble in the 60`s, ( I`ve heard of machinery that diggs a diamitor of 42m at 6ft a day , underground.)OH, there ready for what ever is coming from out there and if there not yet ready thay can`t be far from atleast being able to defend the earth .
anyway kosh , didn`t you go beyond the rim with sherriden , you should now all about the truth out there.

is there anyone else from perth that posably saw it as I would love to hear some opinion on it as it blew me away ( I recorded it) and has sent me on a bit of a secret project search through other documentrys like area 51 and the black world and other things on the net.

I got to tell you this internet is briliant for finding what was hiden only not so long ago.

thanks for all the info on the first five books , now I should be able to read a few diffrent opinions.

[ August 31, 2001: Message edited by: truthseekar ]

Vorkosigan

A scholar whose conclusions are not determined by his or her religious beliefs.

In the case of men like Archer and Wilson, religion determines what position they will take on the 5 Books. The fact is that 5 books have multiple authors, and this has been known since the 19th century (actually, Mosaic authorship was disputed as early as the 12th century in Arab Spain).

All I can say is, read the Friedman book, or The Unauthorized Version by Robin Lane Fox. An extremely funny commentary on Exodus can be found in Wheless's Is it God's Word, which you can download from the library for nothing. I urge you read that whole book.

Archaeological evidence, as outlined in The Bible Unearthed, makes it plain that the events of Exodus never occurred.

Michael

Ulrich

What you saw was part two of a two part series hosted by Roger Moore (formerly 007). Apparently part one of that series was aired on TNT television here in America in Sept. 1998, and the second part never aired here in America. Why this is I cannot say, but I would suspect it had something to do with poor ratings.

Regardless, the portion that was aired on TNT has been debunked by several sources. CSICOP has an article on the show here: http://www.csicop.org/cmi/reviews/TNT-KGB.html

Another very good article on the series: http://www.parascope.com/nb/articles/kgbUFOhoax.htm

A search on Google with the title of the series will return more debunkings, but you will have to wade throught the tons of sources who would rather sell you a copy of the video or DVD.

The people who produced the original, seen on TNT, were not beyond using false information in order to entertain their audience, I don't see why the sequel would be any better.



Oh, really? Then perhaps you can explain how I, as an Aircraft Armament Systems Specialist on USAF F-111a Fighter/Bombers during the mid-80's, never once set foot underground? Nope, all of our hangars, aircraft, flightlines, and even the bomb dump were sitting right on top of good old terra firma.

NORAD, however was built inside of a mountain, but then again it was built to withstand a ground-zero nuclear blast, and during the 20th century. The Pyramids were built several millenia earlier by less advanced cultures (though very advanced for their time).