JohnV

What, one atheist puts words in the Christian's mouth, then the other atheists expect the Christian to defend those words? Gimme a break!

JohnV

It's not suspicious at all. A person who concludes that Jesus was correctly prophesied about hundreds of years in advance is probably going to become a Christian, huh? If someone doesn't want to be a Christian, they're not going to admit to the fulfilled prophecies, are they?

Vorkosigan

Hmmm....well, reading ability is evidently a problem, since Rodahi used a conditional "can" in front of the verb "see." That implies that while all "can," there are some who willfully disregard what is obvious to scholars and layman alike: that Jesus is never mentioned in the OT. If he had been, all of the jews would now be Christians.

We'd be happy to discuss anything you think qualifies as a mention of Jesus in the OT.

Michael

Apikorus

Yes, of course it is quite telling. Incidentally, the same defective hermeneutic applied by evangelicals can be turned against them. For example, Deuteronomy 18:20 warns that the false prophet who arrogates YHWH's authority yet speaks falsely will surely die. One could maintain that this too is prophetic of Jesus - of his aberrant ministry and tragic death. Plus there are some remarkable parallels in Isaiah 14 which can be turned against Jesus (i.e. he was "cast out of his grave like an abominable branch" referring to both the suspicious circumstances of Jesus' burial and to his cursed lineage from Coniah/Jehoiachin!).

Another absurdity is the reading of Jesus into Isaiah 53 as the famous servant of YHWH. What part of Isaiah 41:8 don't these people understand?

[ August 01, 2001: Message edited by: Apikorus ]

JohnV

Seeing as it's repeatedly a remnant that is saved, I'd have to bet that the disciples got it right.
LOL If you wanna get picky, then right back at ya! Your point only shows that I am not a perfect reader. There's quite a bit of room between average and perfect, and some of it is called above average.

James Still

While your opinion may be interesting the idea that the Hebrew Scriptures witness to prophecies about Jesus has no support. It's not a matter of picking apart this passage; rather, it's simply a matter of not seeing in the passage (or its context) what you claim to see. Maybe everyone else is blind to the ways of God but you?

JohnV

Nice try at a change of subject, Apikorus. Incidentally, here's a whole new topic!

Kosh

JohnV
Member Status: Secular Web Visitor
Member Number: 3711
Registered: July 31, 2001
Posts: 7

Random Thiest Of The Week?

It's real simple. Somebody asked a question
about the believing of Jesus' miracles. You
quoted from the OT about people not understanding (standard cult mind control
tacktics, BTW). The implication is that you
think the passage refers to Jesus. Why else
would you quote it as evidence of why the
Jews did not believe?

If the OT repeatedly makes a point of how
Jewish people don't understand things, you'd
think that when God sent his "son" to them
them, he'd have made durn sure that they
wouldn't mis-understand. Otherwise, why not
send him to the Gentiles?

Clearly, God just doesn't love people with
above average inteligence?

JohnV

I'm sure you would. You apparently have stock answers ready for those issues, judging by the attempts to change the subject.

JohnV

No real arguments, huh?
Because it refers to the Jews, and to their ability to believe.