Freethought & Rationalism Archive

02-10-2001, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Le pede:
The point that penatis is making is that Jesus did not have a very good relationship with his family and therefore it is the best reading of the text to think that Jesus was rebuking his mother. I don't know if it was was a rebuke per se, but whatever it was, it probably wasn't a positive statement.

"When Jesus got out of the boat a man with an evil spirit met him. And seeing Jesus from a distance...[he] said, 'What have I to do with you (ti emoi kai soi), Jesus, son of the most high God? I implore you by God do not torment me!'" (Mk. 5:2,7).

"And Jesus says to her, 'What do I have to do with you (ti emoi kai soi), woman?'" (Jn. 2:4).

The fact that the only other time in which this statement (ti emoi kai soi) is used concerns a demon doesn't look too good.

Thanks, Le pede, for pointing out the similarities in the two incidents.

[This message has been edited by penatis (edited February 10, 2001).]

02-10-2001, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Nomad continues to insult me and misrepresent my views. The reason he does this is obvious, he has nothing substantive to offer. Surely, if he did, he would.

I am trying very hard not to let Nomad's patronizing comments and arrogance get to me.

02-10-2001, 08:26 PM

My apologies to you penatis, for the misspelling of your name. Is was sloppy posting on my part, and no offense was intended. I will be more careful of my spelling.

02-11-2001, 08:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RugbyJJ:
My apologies to you penatis, for the misspelling of your name. Is was sloppy posting on my part, and no offense was intended. I will be more careful of my spelling.

No apologies necessary. I never thought you misspelled my name purposely. (On the AOL Christian boards, disgruntled debaters sometimes called me "penis." Obviously, I didn't think it was amusing, but I am sure somebody got a big laugh out of it.)

Further, I have reconsidered my statement that Jesus never showed love and compassion for his mother in the NT. I concede that you were correct in pointing out that in John's version of the execution, Jesus' words COULD be taken to mean that he showed a degree of love and compassion for his mother. You were right; I was wrong.

Ron

02-11-2001, 09:18 AM

But what does it take from the other incidents? Of course telling someone else to take care of his mother is good, for he shows that he is at least concerned about her. But he also embarrassed his family (practically disowned them) and died a dishonorable death. Telling someone to take care of his mother as he is dying, while noble seems like too little, too late. It doesn't take away from Jesus' other outrageous behavior toward his family.

02-11-2001, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Le pede:
But what does it take from the other incidents? Of course telling someone else to take care of his mother is good, for he shows that he is at least concerned about her. But he also embarrassed his family (practically disowned them) and died a dishonorable death. Telling someone to take care of his mother as he is dying, while noble seems like too little, too late. It doesn't take away from Jesus' other outrageous behavior toward his family.

I think all impartial readers of the gospels would come to the same conclusion you and I have.

02-12-2001, 11:27 AM

If Jesus acted so shamefully to his family and was so reviled by them that they disowned him, then why did they continue on as followers of Jesus after his death? Mary and Jesus' brothers were reportedly with the disciples at pentacost. James, the brother of Jesus, continued on to lead the young Christian church in Jerusalem until his martyrdom. Did something happen between Jesus' shameful death and pentacost to change James' mind?

02-12-2001, 07:55 PM

As to JC's brothers continuing to be his followers despite his indifference to them, this might be a case of the battered-wife syndrome, which seems common in the more authoritarian sort of cult.

02-13-2001, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by lpetrich:
As to JC's brothers continuing to be his followers despite his indifference to them, this might be a case of the battered-wife syndrome, which seems common in the more authoritarian sort of cult.

ROFLOL.

Thank you. Today was otherwise too boring on this site.

02-14-2001, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Layman:
If Jesus acted so shamefully to his family and was so reviled by them that they disowned him, then why did they continue on as followers of Jesus after his death? Mary and Jesus' brothers were reportedly with the disciples at pentacost. James, the brother of Jesus, continued on to lead the young Christian church in Jerusalem until his martyrdom. Did something happen between Jesus' shameful death and pentacost to change James' mind?

I am putting together a response. Are you interested?

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02-10-2001, 08:26 PM	#63
Guest Posts: n/a	My apologies to you penatis, for the misspelling of your name. Is was sloppy posting on my part, and no offense was intended. I will be more careful of my spelling.

02-11-2001, 09:18 AM	#65
Guest Posts: n/a	But what does it take from the other incidents? Of course telling someone else to take care of his mother is good, for he shows that he is at least concerned about her. But he also embarrassed his family (practically disowned them) and died a dishonorable death. Telling someone to take care of his mother as he is dying, while noble seems like too little, too late. It doesn't take away from Jesus' other outrageous behavior toward his family.

02-12-2001, 11:27 AM	#67
Guest Posts: n/a	If Jesus acted so shamefully to his family and was so reviled by them that they disowned him, then why did they continue on as followers of Jesus after his death? Mary and Jesus' brothers were reportedly with the disciples at pentacost. James, the brother of Jesus, continued on to lead the young Christian church in Jerusalem until his martyrdom. Did something happen between Jesus' shameful death and pentacost to change James' mind?

02-12-2001, 07:55 PM	#68
Guest Posts: n/a	As to JC's brothers continuing to be his followers despite his indifference to them, this might be a case of the battered-wife syndrome, which seems common in the more authoritarian sort of cult.

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