Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Grand Nubian · 10-27-2001, 07:09 PM

There is a verse in the bible that I've beeen struggling to find but cannot. Maybe I'll get some help.

It describes jesus transfiguering himself. I'm not discussing the time with mary m. after the resurrection. There is another time.

This verse, along with the verse where mary couldn't recognize him may be the reason for doubt.

I think they doubted that this was indeed jesus.

10-27-2001, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Storm and Stress:
Amos, the translation I used was the NIV.
I did however, check the KJV..which has Matthew 28:17

When they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.

If your spin on this verse is correct...and it might be..why not word it better. Why not remove the confusion. I have come to the conclusion that the men who edited, chose what books would be in there, and translated the Bible more often than not had hidden agendas and were poor translators as well.

Here it is, Mt.28:16-19. NAB, 1970.

"The eleven disciples made their way to Galilea, to the mountian to which Jesus had sommoned them. At the sight of him, those who had entertained doubts fell down in homage. Jesus came forward and addressed them in these words: Full authority has been given to me both in heaven and on earth, go therefore and make disciples of all the nations."

From the metaphysical perspectice "full authority both in heaven and on earth" removes all doubt (hence the mountaintop). The apostles were to remember their origen and enter that into heaven from where it was to be used in the world to enrich the man-god Jesus Christ.

Amos

10-27-2001, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumpy:
Oh. I thought this thread would be a series of nominations.

In case it turns into one, I'd like to mention John 11:39, which includes, in part, "By this time he stinketh." Which just sounds strange (though not unexpected, since we're talking about a 4-days dead corpse).

Well Grumpy, egos may be rotten but they never stink.

On the other hand, the seven day wake is to see if a stench develops or not. If not, it was an incorruptable saint and is in heaven. Read Karamazov on this when Father Zoshima died.

Amos

10-27-2001, 07:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grand Nubian:
There is a verse in the bible that I've beeen struggling to find but cannot. Maybe I'll get some help.

It describes jesus transfiguering himself. I'm not discussing the time with mary m. after the resurrection. There is another time.

This verse, along with the verse where mary couldn't recognize him may be the reason for doubt.

I think they doubted that this was indeed jesus.

The "doubt" is to place emphasis on the actual change of the facial expression that takes place and is noticable during/after transfiguration. Transfiguration happens during the Beatific Vision which is when actually the Father and the Son become one.

Moses had one when he was up on the mountain there and his hair turned white. In reality his hair did not turn white but indeed he was transfigured and I think the hair image was a good way to express this.

Amos

Grand Nubian · 10-27-2001, 09:54 PM

Do you know what scripture describes tranfiguration?

10-28-2001, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grand Nubian:
Do you know what scripture describes tranfiguration?

Sorry I don't as I never read the bible. I would not be difficult to find would it?

Grumpy · 10-28-2001, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Amos:
Sorry I don't as I never read the bible. I would not be difficult to find would it?

VERSUS

Quote:

posted by Amos less than 12 hours earlier:
Here it is, Mt.28:16-19. NAB, 1970.

"The eleven disciples made their way to Galilea, to the mountian to which Jesus had sommoned them. At the sight of him, those who had entertained doubts fell down in homage. Jesus came forward and addressed them in these words: Full authority has been given to me both in heaven and on earth, go therefore and make disciples of all the nations."

Amos, if you'd just quit posting altogether, it would be a lot easier for the rest of us to ignore you.

HelenM · 10-28-2001, 11:55 AM

Grand Nubian

Maybe you are thinking of this:

Quote:

Mark 9:1-13 (ESV)
And he said to them, "Truly, I say to you, there are some standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God after it has come with power."
[2] And after six days Jesus took with him Peter and James and John, and led them up a high mountain by themselves. And he was transfigured before them, [3] and his clothes became radiant, intensely white, as no one on earth could bleach them. [4] And there appeared to them Elijah with Moses, and they were talking with Jesus. [5] And Peter said to Jesus, "Rabbi, it is good that we are here. Let us make three tents, one for you and one for Moses and one for Elijah." [6] For he did not know what to say, for they were terrified. [7] And a cloud overshadowed them, and a voice came out of the cloud, "This is my beloved Son; listen to him." [8] And suddenly, looking around, they no longer saw anyone with them but Jesus only.
[9] And as they were coming down the mountain, he charged them to tell no one what they had seen, until the Son of Man had risen from the dead. [10] So they kept the matter to themselves, questioning what this rising from the dead might mean. [11] And they asked him, "Why do the scribes say that first Elijah must come?" [12] And he said to them, "Elijah does come first to restore all things. And how is it written of the Son of Man that he should suffer many things and be treated with contempt? [13] But I tell you that Elijah has come, and they did to him whatever they pleased, as it is written of him."

The same 'event' is described in Matthew 17:1-8 and Luke 9:28-36.

It's referred to as 'the transfiguration' and as you said it is written as happening before Jesus' crucifixion.

Helen

Grand Nubian · 10-28-2001, 03:02 PM

Yes, that's it! Thanks helen.

It's clear that Jesus went up on the mountain and while the fellows weren't looking he changed into radioactive proctective clothing.
Then a huge space ship hovered above him casting a shadow and beamed down the two guys that we thought were dead. But they were immortal aliens or changelings.
So after jesus and the other two aliens kicked 'it' for a while they were beamed up and scotty(on board the ship) shouted over the loud speaker "this is my son".
The fellows, thought it was the voice of god, and it sure gave jesus a lot of credibility.

In any case, since jesus is one of the changelings, he has the capacity to tranfigure. This is why mary didn't recognize him and it's also why he escaped being executed. uhm...this isn't the 'jesus wasn't executed' thread... is it?

Justus · 10-28-2001, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Grumpy:
Oh. I thought this thread would be a series of nominations.

In case it turns into one, I'd like to mention John 11:39, which includes, in part, "By this time he stinketh." Which just sounds strange (though not unexpected, since we're talking about a 4-days dead corpse).

Three interesting ones all from the same book of the Bible ....
Let Him Kiss me with the Kisses of his mouth ......

While the King is at his table My spikenard sends forth it's fragrance ........

We have a little sister and she has no breasts. What shall we do for our sister in the day she is spoken for?

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10-27-2001, 07:09 PM	#11
Grand Nubian Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: mich Posts: 33	There is a verse in the bible that I've beeen struggling to find but cannot. Maybe I'll get some help. It describes jesus transfiguering himself. I'm not discussing the time with mary m. after the resurrection. There is another time. This verse, along with the verse where mary couldn't recognize him may be the reason for doubt. I think they doubted that this was indeed jesus.

10-27-2001, 09:54 PM	#15
Grand Nubian Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: mich Posts: 33	Do you know what scripture describes tranfiguration?

10-28-2001, 03:02 PM	#19
Grand Nubian Junior Member Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: mich Posts: 33	Yes, that's it! Thanks helen. It's clear that Jesus went up on the mountain and while the fellows weren't looking he changed into radioactive proctective clothing. Then a huge space ship hovered above him casting a shadow and beamed down the two guys that we thought were dead. But they were immortal aliens or changelings. So after jesus and the other two aliens kicked 'it' for a while they were beamed up and scotty(on board the ship) shouted over the loud speaker "this is my son". The fellows, thought it was the voice of god, and it sure gave jesus a lot of credibility. In any case, since jesus is one of the changelings, he has the capacity to tranfigure. This is why mary didn't recognize him and it's also why he escaped being executed. uhm...this isn't the 'jesus wasn't executed' thread... is it?

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