I work with Christians, grew up with them, I'm around them all the time. Most I've known weren't YEC's and didn't think that they had an absolute lock on truth, with Hell awaiting everyone who doesn't see it their way. Also, I think that Christians who post on Internet message boards for Atheists are probably a lot more assertive about their faith than the 'Christian-on-the-street."

[This message has been edited by Pitshade (edited April 19, 2001).]

duely noted devnet,

I wish I could execute such a plan, but as my moments of boldness faded, the reality of my surroundings set in.

I think I am just through denying the fact that I believe that christians are allowing themselves to accept a lie in order to simplify their lives. I have in the past tried to identify with them somewhat but my ability to do it is gone. They really are starting to repulse me. When the subject comes up, I used to conform and play along just enough so as not to draw attention to myself. But no more damnit. Perhaps I won't be as aggressive as I implied earlier, but at least Im not going to supress my beliefs.

Im agnostic and coming out of the closet with it. Where can I get a bumber sticker.

Is this an example of the language you would like Christians to use here?

Blessings and Peace

Hilarius

Hilarious, say whatever you want. If you want to let statement of mine bother you, that is fine too, more power to me.

But you should understand my meaning, that I am sick and tired and fed up with the beliefs you all are trying to impose on the rest of us. Aside from the fact that your god is amoral,(read exodus) and the fact that the bible is utterly contradictory, most of the christians I have encountered are ignorant about the bible, haven't even read it. What happens is you all find things you want changed that you feel is wrong and try to find some biblical priori to justify yourself. Keep your damn book to yourself, quit poisoning our future generations with that nonsense. Let mankind advance past this and find a real truth that may offer some satisfaction.

Layman,
nothing is confidential, the only questions is how badly do u want to know?

Some might take that as an implied threat dmvprof. But not me. I have too much faith (not meant in any religious sense mind you) in the inherent (by which I mean, strictly, genetic) goodness (not meant in any metaphysical sense mind you) of modern man properly cleansed (again, a definite secular cleansing) of all of the evil (not meant in any metaphysical sense mind you) of religious superstition and myth (redundant terms I know)!



[This message has been edited by Layman (edited April 19, 2001).]

Hello dvmprof sorry to hear about your grievance but why can't you just use "the four letter word" (fuck it and all you 'christians' with it") and walk away from it? In my view nobody owes you anything and you owe nothing so why be upset with your past indoctinations? I would encourage you to do so and let vengeance seek it own course.

Opposite to you I was born in Catholic country where the pasture was so big that the sheep could not get lost and were allowed to play by night and by day. I never saw a bible in my life until I was 30 which was when I met 'my first protestant.'

I still have not read the entire bible nor will I ever because there is nothing there that life can not teach me on its own.

Amos



[This message has been edited by Amos123 (edited April 19, 2001).]

Meta => That would be as "fucked" as your understading of Christian Doctrine. This is nothing more than argument from encredulity and outrage. Once I posted a thread arguing that God does not send people to hell merely for not being Christians, and that one could make an argument from a christian assumption that there is no hell. but by the end of the thread they were just acting like it was the same old stuff and never even considered that there might be other ways to look at it. I think you just like to be outraged.

You all need a slap in the face followed by a swift kick in the ass.


Meta => I'm a Texan. We don't cotton to that kind of talk!


Meta => Unfortuantely, there are all to many who ply that tact. But you are merely steriotyping.


Meta =>who spoke of the work of the devil? No one that I know of has agued that way. Your arguments cannot stand the intellecuta crucible of scholarship and you are living in deniel.

Meta => I agree with you about the Christian "right." But what about the Christian left? MLK was a Christian! Mother T. Albert Schwesitzer, remeber them? Liberation theology, the work of myrtars in Central and Latin America, ever heard of any of that? Ferdando Boff, Jose Meguse Benino, Ida Ford, Peggy Heaily, Camillio Torez, Gustavo Geutierez, and a hot of others? fighting facism to free the compesinos. Say what social movements are you invovled in?

Meta => OK great! No gloves, two out of three falls, 30 minute time limit, 1x1 you and me, my Bible board. Be there are be square. I promise not to delete you, You can even use the f word, I have a dirty word cather so it doesn't matter. Just you and me, put up or shut up.

<A HREF="http://pub18.ezboard.com/bhavetheologywillargue" TARGET=_blank>Metacrock:Have Theology,
Will Argue</A>


[This message has been edited by Metacrock (edited April 19, 2001).]

1.Christianity is hopelessly incoherent. The asshole Christians you meet will tell you that Layman, Metracrock, Nomad etc., are not true Christians because they are not damning everyone to Hell. Layman, Metacrock, Nomad and others like them will say roughly the opposite: that their passive, tollerant, "intellectual" version of Christianity is the true one, or at least that the assholes known as "Fundies" aren't true Christians. The moderate Christians will tell you that both of them are wrong. The KKK Christians will tell you that all non-KKK Christians are wrong. The Socialist Christians will tell you that all non-socialist Christians are wrong. The "King James Only" Christians will say that those who use other Bible translations are wrong, and their opponents will say just the opposite about them.
The point is: when you complain about Christianity, most Christians will be stupid enough to tell you that all the things done that they do not agree with are done by people who are not "true" Christians. You will get fed up with this, but a good way to deny it is to turn int around on them with another philosophy. For example,simply say that Satanism is not at all a bad philosophy, because Satanic cults who kill people are not "true" Satanists.

2. Christians are brainwashed ignoramuses, but this does not necassarily make them bigoted fools. Rather, they act like this because they have been brainwashed into doing so. Remember that the majority of the most annoying Christians are also the most heavily brainwashed. They are largely just victims, just like freethinkers who resist Christian nonsense.

3.Instead of bashing Christianity so much, why don't you instead ask Christianity for proof of its supernatural claims. Have the burden of proof be on them, not you. They have not, cannot, and probably will not ever be able to prove their supernatural claims, so that should be the end of the discussion.

4.If really pressed up against the wall, use their own Bible against them. For example, ask them why they don't work six days of the week as the Commandment says: "six days of the week you shall labor and do all your work". By my count, there are around twenty different teachings in the Bible (give or take three) that Christians do not follow, but one or two looked up on your own should suffice.

Good day.

What a bunch of ignorant Christian bashing!

Just contemplate quantum mechanics, the nature of conciousness, and the Big Bang for a while and you'll realize that most people are complete idiots when it comes to comprehending reality. We all go through life ignorant of the basic processes of our mind yet completely arrogant about how we know everything and everyone else is stupid. Don't you think that the tendency to see everyone who disagrees with you as being stupid is simply an innate characteristic of our brains?

Yes, there are stupid arrogant Christians and from this thread it should be clear that there are stupid arrogant nonChristians as well. A little reflection will make it clear that we tend to remember things that cause emotional reactions, which tends to make us focus on those who make us mad, which of course are the stupid people who disagree with us. Is it more stupid to believe that there are supernatural beings than to completely miss the obvious faults and confusions of your own brain?

And do any of you even have the mental capability to put yourself in someone else's position? Christianity is an attractive worldview and to those who accept it, they want to share it with others, especially if they feel it has eternal signficance.

And would it surprise you to know that all the clever little arguments and contradictions that you find so convincing don't make much of a difference to a Christian who has experienced the full emotional impact of belief in eternal life and belief in an all-powerful God which loves and cares specifically for them. These beliefs are emotionally and intuitively satisfying, and for those interested in deeper intellectual thought, there is plenty of sophisticated philosophy and theology to satisfy them. Making sense of contradictions and other 'mysteries' are peripheral activities which few care much about it. Does this make them all stupid and ridiculous?

Do all of you live your lives full of logic and reason? Are you sure you don't believe things that aren't true? Are you sure you don't believe things that you haven't simply taken from others without thinking through yourselves? Have you solved the questions of free will and determinism when it comes to your own thoughts? Are you never in awe that the process of evolution has produced you? Are you aware that everything you are made of is full of subatomic particles acting in ridiculously weird ways? How much of the electromagnetic spectrum do you actually 'see'? How much of the universe are you actually aware of? How close is your perception to reality? How much of your knowledge have you personally verified?

How many times have you acted like an ass and later regretted it?

If any of you want to give someone a swift kick in the ass, I suggest you jump in the air, bend your knees, and give a good strong kick.


[This message has been edited by PhysicsGuy (edited April 20, 2001).]