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Old 08-17-2001, 11:23 AM   #1
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Post The Bible and Racism

I've seen references recently in some books that I'm reading that the bible is often quoted by racists to back up their bigotry. Can you bible experts tell me where to find some of these verses? Are these typically old testament passages that include slavery or is there more to it?

Also, where does the bible say that the earth is flat? Carl Sagan mentions that in 'Demon-Haunted World' and I'd love to look it up.

Thanks!
Lori
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Old 08-17-2001, 11:58 AM   #2
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The Bible never claims that the world is flat. Carl Saganís understand of religion and Christianity in particular is kind of naÔve. His fervent belief in scientism is naÔve too, almost precious.
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Old 08-17-2001, 12:38 PM   #3
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Sorry, but I'm looking for facts, chapters and verses, not an ad hominem comment on Mr. Sagan.

Lori
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Old 08-17-2001, 12:46 PM   #4
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It's all right here. Enjoy.
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Old 08-17-2001, 12:47 PM   #5
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Sagan’s belief in science was probably more resolute than yours probably is in Christianity. I believe Sagan was publicly an agnostic and an atheist in private. He believed that religion had a purpose. But, it was not for god worship.

Sagan was not only an astronomer, but was an avid student of evolution, specifically the evolution of the human brain.

Sagan was a “great” communicator.

Although I did not know him personally, I believe I’ve studied most of what he produced and the foregoing are my impressions. I certainly hope you’ve got some basis for your description.
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Old 08-17-2001, 12:47 PM   #6
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[quote]Originally posted by deKooning:
<STRONG>The Bible never claims that the world is flat. </STRONG>

Quote:
Isaiah 11

12 He will raise a banner for the nations and gather the exiles of Israel; he will assemble the scattered people of Judah from the four quarters of the earth.
A sphere has no corners. In order to have
for corners you be some sort of rhombus
(square, parrallelogram, etc). I know,
maybe they were just speaking figuratively
in this one. Too bad they don't differentiate....

Quote:
<STRONG>
Carl Saganís understand of religion and Christianity in particular is kind of naÔve. His fervent belief in scientism is naÔve too, almost precious.</STRONG>
"was". His fervent believe.... WAS...
R.I.P.

As for the racism, could it be the OT attitude that the Jews were Gods chosen
people (the Yaweh god, not the new version
of God for the NT)?

Ironically, those same creationists will claim that racism comes from the theory of
evolution....
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Old 08-17-2001, 12:54 PM   #7
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Kosh: If that is your exegesis and documentation of the Bible's claim that the world is flat, you have made my point for me. The Bible never claims that the world is flat.

Yes, I should have said "was naive." RIP
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Old 08-17-2001, 02:49 PM   #8
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For the Flat Earth quotes, see The Flat Earth Bible

Quote:
[T]he essential flatness of the earth's surface is required by verses like Daniel 4:10-11. In Daniel, the king "saw a tree of great height at the centre of the earth...reaching with its top to the sky and visible to the earth's farthest bounds." If the earth were flat, a sufficiently tall tree would be visible to "the earth's farthest bounds," but this is impossible on a spherical earth. Likewise, in describing the temptation of Jesus by Satan, Matthew 4:8 says, "Once again, the devil took him to a very high mountain, and showed him all the kingdoms of the world [cosmos] in their glory." Obviously, this would be possible only if the earth were flat. The same is true of Revelation 1:7: "Behold, he is coming with the clouds! Every eye shall see him..."

(end snip)

Any quotations from the Bible to back up racism would have to be bogus, since the idea of "race" based on skin color was invented a few centuries ago. (The southern racists of the Confederacy used the curse on Ham to justify the inferior status of dark skinned people.) I checked a few racist sites I have on a list, and while they claim to be Christian, most do not cite a particular Bible verse in support of their racism. On the other hand, there are many passages in the Bible that condone slavery.

And there are certifiable nutcases {warning - this site is not for the faint of heart or weak of stomach) who claim a biblical basis for racism, but that involves, at best, some unique translations.
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Old 08-17-2001, 02:59 PM   #9
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backslider-

here's a great site describing genesis cosmology

also, i like the following verses:
Matthew 4:7-9
Luke 4:4-6
where exactly do you go to see the entire surface of a sphere at once?

but, regardless of the argument you present they'll have some way of rationalizing their way around it. debating a xian is a lot like talking to a 'fridge: it doesn't much matter what you say they'll just keep buzzing.
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Old 08-17-2001, 07:02 PM   #10
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Genesis Chapter 9: 24-7
"And Noah awoke from his wine, and knew what his younger son had done unto him. And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.
And he said, Blessed be the LORD God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant."
Canaan and his father Ham were supposedly the ancestors of blacks...

[ August 17, 2001: Message edited by: Boshko ]
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