Kosh,

Your silliness has done nothing to back me into a corner. I said that Jesus taught that pastors should be reimbursed for their preaching. You asked for scriptural support for that. I provided it.

Now you seem to be confusing the issue and claiming that Jesus ordered all of his followers to take no money belt and go out and preach. But that is not what he was doing. He was speaking to those who were being sent out to preach. Not everyone was sent out to preach.

And you almost seemed to grasp, but then lost, my point about driving cars. Jesus did not tell his followers to avoid strip clubs. But we can infer from what he taught, and from what his apostles taught, that such at thing is inappropriate. Jesus did not leave behind a church government manual.

But then you jump to that tired cliche that the church should give everything the poor. Of course Jesus did not teach that all. The church is not just about feeding the poor. It is about teaching spiritual truth, converting sinners, helping new believers to mature, promoting fellowship and brotherhood among its members, and about meeting people's material needs. The people that administer these things are worthy of their wages.

You are being silly. You seem to be attempting to show that Christians are acting contrary to Jesus' teachings by giving to their churches for the abovementioned purposes, and that Jesus would be much happier if we just but that money in mutual funds.

You have no point. There is no corner. A worker is worthy of his wages.

[This message has been edited by Layman (edited May 18, 2001).]

This was my point. Thanks for admitting it.

It is tired. Just like the one about not
worshiping money and giving it to the church
instead....


[quote]<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">
You are being silly.
[QUOTE]

"Let's go to Camelot!"

"Let's not, 'Tis a silly place".

No, I think he'd be happier (if he exists)
if you'd stop wasting your time on Church
buildings and all the infrastructure that
goes with them!

"'Tis just a flesh wound! Come back and
fight like a man!" - Black Night as he
bleeds to death

Yeah. All your argument boils down to is that you "think" Jesus would be happer ("if he exists") if we didn't have buildings.

Unilateral declarations of victory, however, are good for moral.

Layman, I find it funny that Kosh and CTME are complaining so much about how Christians should give away their money. I personally think they should be giving their time and money to multiple charities before complaining that the church doesn't do enough. Good grief... Churches as a whole (even with their buildings and pastor's salaries) do more than than most.


My church made somewhere between 7-10,000 Thanksgiving meals for the homeless. They regularly help at many of the homeless shelters in the area. They provide for the needs of poor people in the area all the time and especially at Christmas. They visit the elderly and sick providing them with much needed encouragement and love. They are gathering warm, rugged shoes to send off to shod Romanian orphans. Several members that can afford it are going over there to spend time with the neglected orphans (who knows but what someone will adopt...). I could go on and on. This is just ONE southern baptist church! When combined with the churches of Layman, Nomad, Bede, et al, imagine what they do for the needs of the world as a group!


I have to get on my soapbox here because it is complete arrogance to talk as Kosh and CTME are. I challenge you to give as much of your time and money as many of those in churches do. Then perhaps you have the right to talk as you do.

What do you do for your "neighbors"?

Soapbox mode off,
Ish

[This message has been edited by Ish (edited May 18, 2001).]

I agree with you Ish.

It may speak ill of me, but I have been motivated to give more to such charities than I would have been without going to church.

Well,here's one example. We work with the
local Harley Owners Group (HOG) to raise
money for the Childrens Hospital. Last
year we raised over 70 thousand dollars,
and EVERY dime of it went to the hospital.

(and since my neighbor works there...)

Tomorrow we'll be participating in the
"Wall Ride", a group of bikers riding
to DC to raise money for the families of
POW/MIA.

(That was a bad assumption-ish)

Why not just sell all of your bikes, all the money spent on gas, all the money spent on clothes and accessories, all the money spent on traffic tickets, and donate them all to the Children's Charity?

Layman, exactly!

Ish

I'm truly glad that you do give Kosh because all of us (Christian or not) need to help people in need. Perhaps, at least in your case, I made a relatively bad assumption.

However, what is being suggested in this thread about Christians and how they should give is just as much of a bad assumption.

Ish

Lance

Guys: my bitch isn't with your churches having pretty buildings, fancy santuaries, or pay their pastors extremely well. Your problem, your money.

What I object to is my taxes being skimmed to pay for part of it.

Kosh's bikes aren't paid for in part with my higher taxes. Your cult's buildings are.

THAT is the difference!