sailor74

truthseeker

i'm going to give you one more clue as to how to read the bible.

The wicked king trys to kill the child.

This is an ageless story. When Krishna was born, the wicked king Kansa tried to kill him and authored the slaughter of the innocents. When Zoroaster was born, the wicked king tried to have him trampled by horses. Zoroaster was saved by a white horse. The story of jesus and the wicked king herod, is a contiuation of the ancient mythos. The carnal EGO (satan) in all of us will do anything to kill out the children of 2 years old. The number two means the union of body and soul, lower mind and higher mind, if you will. All of the new THOUGHTS coming from the devine mind are the children of 2 years. The child is threatened by the EGO, and whwnever possible the lower mind (carnal) will find an excuse to stay away from your meditation.

do you see a shoe fit here.

Always look for the deeper symbolic meaning of the bible scriptures, and you will find real spiritual truths. why the writers of the bible did this. not really sure. may-be to make us think. But taken literally nothing makes sense. but understanding the true story has meaning for all.

its all ancient greek mythology.

so who were these greeks that gave us the foundations of civilization: medicine, philosophy, astronomy and the friggin bible coded in such a way the average person can not understand it, at all.You tell me.


edited by danny

truthseekar

quote:sailor
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It’s all ancient Greek mythology.

So who were these Greeks that gave us the foundations of civilization: medicine, philosophy, astronomy and the frigid bible coded in such a way the average person can not understand it, at all. You tell me.
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Sailor,
Although I do agree that Greek mythology has dramatically changed the belief systems of the ancients (from before Greece was even a twinkle in the earths eye.)

And although Greece civilization has a big influence on modern thinking it is far from being the cradle of civilization and infact is still in the cradle compared to those who are responsible for the cradle of civilisation i.e. Sumer, Babylon and Egypt.

Greece is a baby compared to them.

I also don`t have a problem understanding the bible at all (although I can see you do )and if I were to chose a spiritual path I would steer clear of the frauds I have been involved in over the years like fundy Christians, budists, I even tried sy babe and read the course in miracles and a return to love (both new age books) and dwelved into them for a while and I’ve got to be honest sailor and say that thay all proved frauds and offered nothing but religious crap with no truth and when I was young I tried palmistry, astrology and numerology not to mention tarot and medium encounters so I would say I have looked around for this light you talk about and all I see is the fact that it only comes on when you get to the truth and all these religions have proved false and from my observations the most pathetic religions of them all are Hinduism , crissa and Muslims . I would only find darkness and lies there I`m shore as it smells of darkness from a mile away.

So my religion, my light and dark is if you believe in a lie you are in darkness but if you find the truth, you have found the light.

My religion is truth and truth will shed light on the facts which is allot more than any thing you have offered me, your explanations on the bible don`t shed any light on anything except to say that the light shows you don`t understand a thing about the bible.

Threes not a church going Christian that would believe in this kind of spirituality or theology as thay put there faith in god
Through the crucifixion and resurrection and the promises made to them of the resurrection and there for there religion is very much one of faith (thinking), sounds like your religion wants to put faith in nothing, you don`t even want to think of anything so I suppose that leaves you write were thay want you, dazed and stupid so thay can manipulate you ( ye, I no how it works, been there).

Humanity is renoun for being deluded into stupefying religions all throu time.

Sailor please wake up before theres no reason left in your brain, that’s how thay want you, stupified. I`m not meaning to have a go at you, It`s just my way of trying to wake people up to what thay believe and brother it sounds like your in allot of trouble so I’d fling that crap meditation thay got you on and start think about SOMETHING, anything ,but sailor you got to live and your theology sounds like your one of those, I`m so spiritually turned on (that I`m earthly ,not hear) but the problem is that the people I now like that are so worldly turned of to the point were thay don`t live at all but meditate until there dead (even isolating themselves in a monastery).

Sailor, if these people of theses spiritual guru’s are so enlightened how come thay are just sitting on there self made thrones doing not a dame thing to help mankind except to teach him to worship them. These people don`t realy produce much and thay seem a little retarded, is that all that lazy sitting around doing nothing and thinking about nothing, so how can these teachers teach me anything if all thay practise is to meditate on nothing all the time. not to mention ,I have 4 children , what could thay teach me about child rearing , nothing as thay have never been married or had children so what can these people teach me .It`s them that needs to get enlightened to what lifes realy all about (and I can tell you it`s not sitting in a temple meditating about nothing all your life celibrit just to die and then that’s it .
Nooo, thay can`t shed light when there in gross darkness themselves..

Guys like the deli lama and sy babe and others.

Sailor, please for your sake stop believing such crap and go and live your life the best you no how because when it`s done you will be nothing, you will be dead, so, please dice these stupid idiotic beliefs. YOU WILL BE NOTHING WHEN YOUR DEAD SO LEAVE NOTHINGNESS IN THE GRAVE AND LIVE BECAUSE YOUL~E HAVE PLENTY OF CHANCE TO DO AND BE NOTHING THEN.

Now faith in god. Theres a light of truth that makes all religions a joke.

Does that shed any light on anything fore you , anything you can meditate on in this or are you going to go for enother session of scrubing everything up there .

Forgive my arrogance , I`m not shore how else to deal with this as I could beat around the bush and imply things but me , I`ll just tell you what I think, more honest that way even though it brings much persucution. sorry

Ron Garrett

Truthseekar, you puzzle me. First of all because you spell like George Patton. Second of all, you confuse me with one post where you seem to regard the scripture and with the next you seem not to.

(By the way, I left the pastorate a few years ago and have subsequently embraced atheism by default, primarily because all that I'd been taught in support of Christianity being the sole source of revelation and divine truth turned out to be irrational nonsense as neither is apparently available.)

The answer to your question regarding the sacrifices of Cain and Abel, Cain is regarded apparently because of Yahweh's desire for blood and meat. The smell of meat burning on the altar is always described as a sweet smelling savor to the Lord. Yahweh likes Bar-B-Q as we one time Texans would say.

In all the sacrificial rites of the Old Testament the best meat animal got the most attention from God. If you will also note, after the animal is sacrificed on the altar the priests get the meat for their supper. This has led many to assume that the notion of a God that must be fed arises in primitive religions because feeding animals is all we see around us as primitives. Once we are no longer primitives we find other reasons to continue to feed God, such as sacrifices for our sins. Thus it's fair to say that much of the Levitical rites of scrifice had the secondary if not primary purpose of feeding the priesthood who were forbidden to own grazing and farm land as had been allocated to the other tribes. Indeed it is likely that all sacrifice, if not originating as a way for priests to get fed, eventually became that. Today in churches the offering, now money instead of food, is still how priests get fed.

This desire for blood sacrifice carries over into the New Testament with the death of Jesus as "the Lamb of God" as a sin offering for the world, an atonement for sin.

Hebrews 9 explains:
So as you can see, the shedding of blood has a special place in Christian theology and soteriology. So Christian and non-Christian scholars alike agree Cain's sacrifice was deemed superior because it sacrificed the life-blood of an conscious, breathing animal, which is different from a sheaf of wheat that has nothing to lose. Hope that helps.

Grumpy

It might be prudent for one or both of you to change nicknames -- as you yourself seem to have become confused. In my above post, I directed one set of comments to 'seekar, and a final remark to you, SotT. Thus, you replied to my rebuttal of 'seekar as if I was contesting your point -- when in fact I was agreeing with you!

You may wish to lurk a bit more before posting again. I don't post on all the threads, but if you read enough you'll see that I am an atheist, not prone to post lengthy Bible verses to uphold their validity.

Now, as for the OTHER guy...

Would it be rude to call the above quote 'badly spelled gibberish'?

The relevant portion is in italics -- as your lack of punctuation might otherwise obscure it. Put bluntly, you continue to assert that there was something different about Cain's "heart" -- when the verses in question refer to no such thing. Think again: is this something you're reading, or are you leaning on your own imagination?

Notice, also, that I excluded Gen. 4:2 for the sake of brevity -- as the subsequent verses make quite plain that Abel was a herder and Cain a farmer. Including that verse doesn't strengthen your case one bit.

In closing, brothers and sisters, remember God's wisdom from Proverbs 15:2, "The tongue of the wise useth knowledge aright: but the mouth of fools poureth out foolishness." Man, there is a lot of pouring going on in this thread.

truthseekar

Ron,
Did it cross your mind to think of the fact that Abel was the first to ever sacrifice an animal and please god this way as a result of his righteousness, and that this is were all the stuff your talking about started? God approved of Abel and therefore his way of sacrifice pleased god and became tradition for mans expression of wining gods approval by the sacrifice for there sin and offerings Of our first fruits. (According to the bible anyway), Ron, no wonder you lost your faith.


Grumpy,
Didn`t you read gen 4:7, that makes it real clear that the problem with Cain was not the sacrifice but the sin in his heart.

What’s wrong with you people, read the dam thing, I don`t believe it necessarily but I do no what it says, which seems to be void of you
people?????????????????????????????????????????? /

6
And the LORD said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? And why is thy countenance fallen?
7
If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? And if thou doest not well, sin Leith at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
Grumpy, forgive my spelling, I`m dyslexic and I`m actually doing well.

Ted Hoffman

dont you ladies have something better to do than argue over the bible?
Its a waste of the beautiful gift of life to argue over stupid myths.
(I dont believe that life is a gift - I just like the phrase)

sailor74

Everyone here seems to be missing the point.

The shedding of blood and sacrifices of animals, its all symbolic its an ALLEGORY.

Now if you want to believe it literally then the bible makes no sense and is irrelevant.

but symbolicaly interpretated, it makes sense.

The blood in the bible represents the life force in each one of us, and slaughtering of animals, is ruling over your carnal nature, the animals are represented as your lower nature. Havnt you heard some one calling another an animal for causing a despicable act or crime.

It was no different in olden times. Jesus born in a manger why? because animals are present, you are born with animal nature, and as you grow older, hopefully you develop your spiritual side and kill your lower nature the carnal side, or left side if the brain function, symbolically of course.

Im sorry if no one gets this stuff. Its the reality of the bible.


danny

truthseekar

sailor74
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Everyone here seems to be missing the point.
The shedding of blood and sacrifices of animals, its all symbolic .
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danny ,
my point is that the shedding of blood was symbolic of abels love and comitment to god.

how can I get what your saying when you imagine simgolic metiphores for the whole bible, wake up, the bible (wether true or false ) reads extreemly clearly for the most part and you can`t understand that as you think this book is symbolic , which I supose you would do if you couldn`t understand it.
it`s pritty clear to me danny , why, what is it that you cant understand???????

jaliet ,
were did you come from??? do you usually pop up in the middle of peoples conversations and have such a pathetic in put , then I suppose that is a traite of a woman isn`t it juliet, to not think about much, lol,

-DM-

As far as I am concerned, you can post as many quotes from my material as you wish provided that:
1.) you identify the source (i.e., provide an attribution), and
2.) the reason for the quotes is so that you can then respond to, critique, and make comments about each quote.

The readers of this forum can do that without quoting if you simply provide a link to the material. If you quote, then you need to do so for the purpose of your OWN comments regarding those quotes. Otherwise you open yourself to the possibility of copyright violations and, at the very least, criticism for inappropriate behavior.

--Don--

-DM-

Any quote of Scripture verses can be said to be "out of context" unless everything relevant is also quoted. On the other hand, whole sermons are often built on a single verse or a few related verses. When ministers and evangelists take scripture out of context, as long as it is in accord with what they believe (or with standard Christian dogma) there seems to be no problem. But let a Bible critic do the same, and it is guaranteed that the apologists will be right there with their "out of context" dismissal of any criticism.

That wasn't his word, it was mine. And whether you went any further or not is irrelevant to the truth of the matter. If the scribes (the teachers) falsify the word, then what people learn about the alleged word of "God" cannot be trusted. The scribes aren't the only problem, however.

1KI 22:23, 2CH 18:22, JE 4:10, JE 20:7, EZ 14:9 God deceives some of the prophets.
2TH 2:11-12 God deceives the wicked (to be able to condemn them).
EZ 20:25 God says that he intentionally gave out bad laws. (This means that God-given laws or commandments are sometimes suspect.)

These little-known "facts" from the Bible mean that what the Bible says about "God" is open to question on the basis of those alleged "facts" if for no other reason (and there are, of course, other reasons as well).

There are plenty of places where the Bible makes real mistakes. If you would look at the material in question--particularly the Absurdities and the Inconsistencies, you would find many such examples.


quote :seeker of truth
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GE 4:4-5 God prefers Abel's offering and has no regard for Cain's.
2CH 19:7, AC 10:34, RO 2:11 God shows no partiality. He treats all alike.
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This is a typical, ad hoc how-it-might-have-been "explanation" to hopefully explain away a disturbing aspect, namely his arbitrariness, of the "God" character, but unfortunately for the sake of the veracity of your scenario, it cannot be supported on the basis of what is in the story in GE 4. GE 4 itself says nothing of the sort nor does it even give us a clue that what you claim is the case might be involved.

Next time you engage in speculation of this sort, you might want to point out that you are just making it up.

You sound like a typical evangelist or apologist, claiming what the Bible claims elsewhere, namely that "God" is no respecter of persons--never mind that what the Bible claims about "God" being no respecter of persons is inconsistent with "God's" behavior as portrayed in the Bible.

--Don--