zenman

What a crock

metacrock, should be megacrock.


zenman

GunnerJ

Looking for Biblical absurdities/contradictions, Disciple? Look no further!

Here are the absurdaties...


...and here are the contradictions.

Now, a supposedly inerrant book written by an omniscient being shouldn't have ANY obvious flaws or logical contradictions. You may be able to dispute a hundful of these gems, but all of them?

Deathscyth Hell

First of all, I'm not going to claim to be an inerrantist, I am not. I do not believe that the stories are inerrant, but just that the meanings, and the basis of the stories are.

I read some of Your absurdities and I see 2 things about them.

1. Many of them are uniportant and are prophetic or visions.

2. Many of them have no basis if you look at the hebrew culture, and what they believed. Also, they may have been translated badly, and do not portray the story very well. What you see as absurdity, may not have been seen as absurdity to the people who those books were origionally written for. (the ancient Hebrews, and other ancient cultures)

I also read some of your contradictions. Not very many contradictions are important. (remember I am not an inerrantist). Some are not even contradictions, not if you read the whole section, not just the parts that you highlighted. And you have to think about what it would have meant in its origonal written language, so much of the meaning is lost in the translation, and you must learn what it would have meant to the people who lived in that place and time.

I have yet to see one contradiction that is a serious threat to the actual meaning of the story, and the actual story itself.

GunnerJ

Excellent job dancing around the issue, Deathscythe. By vaguely saying that some of the absrd./contras. were "unimportant to the story" or "possibly mistranslated" you can ignore the really obstinant stinkers, like:

Are we saved by faith alone, or faith and works?"

This is not some vague prophesy or unimportant detail, no could all of them been "mistranslated." This is a core tenant of Xian dogma. 'Matter of fact, it could be THE most important tenant. Why is there so much ambiguity? Did God change His mind from time to time when partially inspiring the Bible?

Deathscyth Hell

I will start by addressing 2 of the Contradictions, since I am short on time, and I do deem this as somewhat important. Although it is obvious that the "faith without works" concept is taught in the Bible.

1.(Pslm 62 11-12) God hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto God. Also unto thee, O Lord, belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every man according to his work.

------------------------------------------

I see no mention of Salvation here. You can't count this one.

Jer. Is the same, no mention of salvation.

I guess that I could go ahead and do another one.

3. (Mat 12:37)For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

He is using these words to talk to the Pharisees, for which Salvation by faith has no meaning. He was rebuking them for saying that it was by satan that he was casting out demons. Your words will be judged. Since no one can claim to be perfect, and no one can claim to have never said soming that is bad or hurtful to another human being, I think it is safe to say that this is no contradiction. Not any more than saying a perfect man can go to heaven, since no one is perfect.

4. Mat (16:27) For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

My translation is much better (NOAB). It says repay every man for his works, instead of reward. So the evil that we do will be repaid with "For the wages of Sin is death".

5.(Matt 19:17) And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.

Notice verse 21 which says "come and follow me". In other words, Jesus says that in spite of his keeping of the commandments, he still must become a follower of Christ. Not much of a contradiction here.

6. (Luke 10:26-28)
He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.


I don't see anything about works here, all it says is to love God and Love your neighbor. Now if you love God, then aren't you going to follow him and do as he asks? Aren't you a believer, don't you have faith? And it is your faith that would save you. And love your neighbor echos "faith without works is dead"

7. (Jn 5:29)And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


This is talking about those that Died before Christ payed for our sins. And when Christ went down into hell when he died, he freed those who were in Hell. And those that were Good followed him and had life. Those that were evil were damned.Besides, christ says twice in this passage that he is the way to eternal life.

I'll do more tomorrow, but right now, I'm pooped. Whe it is 1 in the morning here, at least I don't have class until 12 noon, Lol. Bible prof is out of Town tomorrow morning, so I don't have class at 8 as usual.

Deathscyth Hell

Now for the Rest
(There is something that you need to remember, these letters were written to believers, so they already have salvation.)

8. (Romans 2:6,13) Who will render to every man according to his deeds.
(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.


And what is the Law? "Love the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind, soul, and strength. Love your neighbor as yourself". Sounds a whole heck of a lot like faith to me. Of course we will be repayed for our deeds. But only through christ can we be redeemed from the evil in us. It makes sense, unless you don't want it to.

9. (Col. 5:10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

The problem is, it doesnt say what we will recieve for the Good and bad things that we do, and how much that the Good and Bad will affect each other. Other parts of the Bible are quite clear on this subject. (a thousand men in tears can not wash away the sin).


10. (2 Cor. 10:15) Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

This whole section is meaningless. The Ministers refered to are Satan's ministers. Of course they will be repayed for their deeds, they have no salvation through faith.

11.(Jas 2:14)What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?

Faith without works is dead. His faith isn't real, becuase he has no works. It makes sense unless you don't want it to.

12.Faith without works is dead. Obvious. No need to bother with this one, all christians agree with this. "it is by faith alone that we are saved, but not by faith that is alone."

13.Was not Abraham our father justified by works,
Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Likewise also was not Rahab the harlot justified by works, when

This whole passage is talking about our faith being justified through works. It is our works that makes the faith perfect. Faith without works is dead.

2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?

2:23
And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.


14.(1. pet 1:17) And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, pass the time of your sojourning here in fear

God judges everone by his deeds, there is no doubt about that. However, christ came to redeem us, because our good deeds can never outway the bad ones.


Unless you can find a bible verse that says that works can gain salvation in clear words, then you don't have a case by saying that you are judged by your deeds. Becuase everyone is judged by their deeds, but christs blood washes away our sins, so they are no longer present, therefore we are judged and not found wanting, becuase of christ's sacrafice.

Metacrock

O that's so original. Of course since Crock is already part of my name, and since "meta" means about the same thing as "mega" one might suspect I already thought of it.

Metacrock

Read my thread on "the stupidity of all or noting." That appraoch just reduces the Bible to information please almanc. Such alledged "contradictions" just dont' matter.

zenman

Megacrock


Just what the hell are you trying to say?


The bible is mythology, and not a tittle is literally true. What do you want?

Zenman

Wahrheit

Hi Rimstalker,

I don't see why this is such an "obstinate stinker". It is faith that saves you, but the mark of a true faith is good works. It isn't the works themselves that save you, but a true faith is discernible by works.

Wahrheit