I mention geology because it is the study of a single entity: Earth. And all of the Earth's history represents a succession of one-time events.

Does that mean that geology is not a real science?

We know more about the Revolutionairy war from the writings of those who were involved in it then any "scientific" method you are thinking about. Some events in life leave fingerprints; most do not. The early writings of the gospel and the initial spread are the fingerprints of the resurrection. The inability of the early opponents of Christianity to produce the body of Christ is an argument from silence. The changed lives and attitudes of the apostles and other through history is a fingerprint. That church down the road is a fingerprint that Jesus Christ rose from the dead. Whether or not these ripples prove the event, they are evidence of some stone being throne in the pond. It is as equally impossible to prove that I had coffee yesterday morning as it is to prove that Jesus rose from the dead. Most events do not leave the kind of "fingerprints" you demand; only catastrophic, huge events do. And the resurrection of one man could not be that "huge" of an event in scope of the resurrection itself, to be verified; the scope it reaches is the eyewitnesses in the NT.

Quote:

<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Nice dodge. But I also mentioned C14 reliability, which is not a scientific constant. Ditto for the age of the earth. And the "one time event" fallacy is discussed above. But, you have not demonstrated that the resurrection was a historical event. Need I remind you that one of your premises is out of order? You have to demonstrate two things here: 1. that such event as a resurrection are even possible; and 2. that Jesus participated in such an event. You can't get to #2, if you haven't proven #1.

Since 1 is considered the seal of Christ's having "come from God" it is very importantly realised as a "miracle." Possible miracles are usually denounced by skeptics as "cooincidences." But these "impossible" miracles are what proves the power of God over nature. If there is a Supreme Being, He must be more powerful than the laws of nature, so "with God everything is possible." If the resurrection were a very common and ordinairy(possible) event, it would be a pointless claim, not an amazing one.

"So Jesus rose from the dead? So what. My uncle rose from the dead 3 years ago. It happens on occasion."

Resurrection is supposed to be "impossible"- how else would it bring glory to God when He does the impossible?

BZZT. Circular. Assuming your conclusion. You have to prove that it happened, before stating that it has come from God.

Except there haven't been any such miracles.

Providing that your view of god(s) is correct.

IF, if, if.


BZZT. Assuming the conclusion. First prove that God exists, then that he wants glory, then that a resurrection took place.

Are you claiming that the resurrection of Jesus should have left some sort of geological evidence? If so, which kind of geological evidence would it have left?

***Ooops meant for another thread***

I think that secular and private hosptials, charities,etc have a hard time in these areas because they are competing with TAX SHELTERED churches. This makes a large difference when competing in the non-profit arena.

Honestly, how about the largest Charity drive in America, Welfare? Is this also sponsored by tax sheltered churches? No it was originally created and supported by those of us who are a little more "liberal" and not as reliant on the religious right.

You ask what my Church does? Well I can tell you what it does not do.

It does not make people feel guilty for being human (original sin, all men sin, all mens hearts are evil, etc,etc,etc)

My church does not commit atrocities such as the Salem Witch Trials, the Crusades, The Inquisition, etc,etc,etc


Seriously, what about the answers given by "believers in Jesus"?

[This message has been edited by isa457 (edited March 20, 2001).]

Why do you think that? We also have physical artifacts - cannons, ships, maps, lanterns, muskets, etc. And places with clear connections and historical "fingerprints" - forts, cities, etc. involved in actual battles, with scars, burn marks, broken walls, etc.

Too bad we don't have things like this for the resurrection.


No, they are not. By "fingerprint", I mean direct physical evidence attesting to the event in question. Not a fragmented description written decades after the event. For example, if the Shroud of Turin were ever found to be authentic, that would be a "fingerprint".


And a bad one at that. Why would the opponents care enough to bother? You assume that the opponents were worried enough to lift a finger against a small fringe sect.

The rest of your arguments are likewise emotional and without foundation.

And on the subject of medicine, I note that materialistic medicine has been *much* more successful than the Power of Prayer. And you don't even have to believe in it for it to work.

Medicine is older than Christianity, whose founder had been known to talk to demons and to drive demons into pigs (why didn't he simply make them go away?). Or at least so his biographers say.

The Hippocratic Oath had been invented by a pagan, Hippocrates, and it features an invocation of "Apollo and all the gods". Hippocrates had displayed considerable rationality by noting that epilepsy is called a disease sent by the Gods because nobody really knows what causes it.

Consider that Mary Baker Eddy had been known to rely on morphine as a painkiller -- she evidently could not convince herself that her pain was a figment of her imagination, which is what Christian Science teaches.

And Mother Teresa had been known to go to materialist-medicine hospitals.

***Posted by Mistake***

Forum "leaders" please delete


[This message has been edited by isa457 (edited March 21, 2001).]

No, I am asking you to address Loren's question. You miss the point again, deliberately.

Once more:

a_theistnotatheist,

You still haven't answered my questions in the other post. Was it "Traffic Laws from God?"

The argument you give above can be used as a template for all other religions as follows:

That church down the road is a fingerprint that (the Buddha) (reached Nirvana). Whether or not these ripples prove the event, they are evidence of some stone being throne in the pond.

That church down the road is a fingerprint that (Mohammed)(was God's Profit. Whether or not these ripples prove the event, they are evidence of some stone being throne in the pond.

That church down the road is a fingerprint that (David Koresh) rose from the dead. Whether or not these ripples prove the event, they are evidence of some stone being throne in the pond.

That church down the road is a fingerprint that (the Jehova's Witnesses are right). Whether or not these ripples prove the event, they are evidence of some stone being throne in the pond.

In other words, RIDICULOUS!!!