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Old 06-03-2001, 05:11 PM   #11
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If you really want to read a book by an unbiased scholar, read Redating the New Testament by John A.T. Robinson. What a great guy, and what a great book! He is a liberal theologian, and I'm pretty sure that he doesn't believe in miracles by any stretch, but he still recognizes the faults of the thinking of his own way of thinking. He said:

"For, much more than is generally recognized, the chronology of the NT rests on presuppositions rather than on facts. It is not the case that new facts have appeared, new absolute datings which cannot be contested--they are still extraordinarily scarce."
 
Old 06-03-2001, 05:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by matt:
If you really want to read a book by an unbiased scholar, read Redating the New Testament by John A.T. Robinson. What a great guy, and what a great book! He is a liberal theologian, and I'm pretty sure that he doesn't believe in miracles by any stretch, but he still recognizes the faults of the thinking of his own way of thinking. He said:

"For, much more than is generally recognized, the chronology of the NT rests on presuppositions rather than on facts. It is not the case that new facts have appeared, new absolute datings which cannot be contested--they are still extraordinarily scarce."
</font>
I can't speak to Robinson's degree of bias, but I do know that he has failed to convince the vast majority of scholars. The fact is, there are no absolute datings of any of the NT works, early or late.
 
Old 06-06-2001, 04:03 AM   #13
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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Toto:
It would be hard to write a secular biography of Paul. He left some letters, and the Book of Acts was written about him. There is no extra-biblical information about him. The letters and Acts differ considerably, and both are historically suspect. Acts appears to be largely legendary, written almost a century after he lived by someone with a political agenda. Paul's letters were probably edited and interpolated, so we really can't be that sure of much about him.</font>
Toto-

I know that these claims have been debated many times in these threads, and that you have your own opinion...

However, I object to this kind of stultifying commentary on the issues. You make them sound shrouded in the mysteries of time and impossible to verify, when radical and conservative scholars alike seek to go deeper into the texts. And I especially object to what is really your opinion about the dating of Acts, its legendary nature, its relation to Luke, etc. not being qualified by the opposition opinion that Acts is written by a contemporary of the apostles, the same writer as the Gospel According to Luke, and dated much earlier than you suggest.

You are in a position of authority and responsibility as a moderator, IMO. I am not trying to say that I am right and you are wrong. These are big debates. I just object to the blanket nature of your claims because you provide no way to distinguish between your personal level of certainty and the range of certainty that exists in current scholarship. So, there is a strong chance that your remarks could be misleading to someone who has not investigated the nature of Acts.

:-) I'm not trying to give offense. I just want the bare mention of the existence of contrary claims.

Cheers,
Dan
 
Old 06-06-2001, 11:11 AM   #14
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Hi Dan -

"Moderator" = volunteer. I am a moderator on Church State Separation, not on BC&A. I am a computer programmer, not a subject matter expert, so you may take whatever I write as just my opinion. Perhaps I should be more careful about adding, 'I understand it to be the case...'

In any case, there is a separate thread on the dating of Luke-Acts, where I am doing some homework on some references that Layman provided and hope to add something soon. You may join in there if you wish.

Toto
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