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Old 03-21-2013, 03:00 PM   #181
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Have you read MG's book on GThomas and the Gospels?
Jeffrey
And I did read Tony Burke's lengthy review of the book. That prompted my observation about the consistent reinforcement of a basic worldview on Goodacre's part. That and his participation in that awful Bible miniseries.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:00 PM   #182
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Have you read MG's book on GThomas and the Gospels?
Jeffrey
What did you just lose your job or something? It's immaterial to the discussion about whether I have noticed a pattern of behavior from Goodacre. I do not reference the book directly in my post.
So the picture of the book was not a direct reference to what he has also said a "million" times? You weren't intent to say that it was in that book that Mark Goodacre showed himself to be like so many other biblical scholars?

So if not that book, what is your assessment of MG's scholarship based on? What works by MG have you read?

Jeffrey
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:04 PM   #183
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I read The Case Against Q when it came out. I am friends with him on Facebook. I have watched him refuse to address his support for Carlson's use of low resolution photographs to justify the charge of forgery. I read his blog and have left comments there. I read Burke's review of this book and from all of these sources I have put together my assessment of his motivation.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:06 PM   #184
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Have you read MG's book on GThomas and the Gospels?
Jeffrey
And I did read Tony Burke's lengthy review of the book.
But not the book itself? You do realize don't you that this is exactly the same sort of "scholarship" that is characteristic of Pete. He bases many of his claims on what a reviewer says a given book says, rather than on the books themselves.

Thanks for proving my point.

Jeffrey
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:07 PM   #185
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I see so from the sources listed above I can't put together a sense of the author's worldview. Sort of like my assumption that something bad must have happened in your personal life to come to a forum to seek solace in stepping on ants.
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:17 PM   #186
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... You do realize don't you that this is exactly the same sort of "scholarship" that is characteristic of Pete. He bases many of his claims on what a reviewer says a given book says, rather than on the books themselves.

...
This is not quite accurate. Pete would take a big step forward if he read intelligent, scholarly reviews of the relevant literature. Instead, he reads primary sources and lifts poorly understood phrases to fill out his own grand scheme for understanding history (i.e, Constantine evil! pagan Greeks good!!)
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Old 03-21-2013, 03:49 PM   #187
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I see so from the sources listed above I can't put together a sense of the author's worldview. Sort of like my assumption that something bad must have happened in your personal life to come to a forum to seek solace in stepping on ants.
Wow. Two fallacies at once. Petitio principii in assuming that your assessment is in any way accurate and the circumstantial ad hominem in thinking that the truth of falsity of what someone says -- which is what is at issue in scholarly debates -- is to be determined by why he/she says it.

My assessment of your ability to engage in rational argument has dropped yet another notch.

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Old 03-21-2013, 04:18 PM   #188
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So if you don't like me and you despise everyone else why'd you come back? Looking for recommendations on good dog groomers in your area?
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:30 PM   #189
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The primary assertion of the OP is that Matthew is having Jesus cast the "daimones" (guardian spirits) into a pack of swine soon to be destroyed. I have described this as a subversion of the original Greek meaning for "daimon". The author seems to have been paving the way for the coming of the propaganda about the Christian replacement "guardian spirit", none other than the "Holy Ghost".

Leaving aside the fact that there is no such assertion in the OP and that you are now (and once again) misrepresenting what you said there, let's note that you have yet to demonstrate not only that "guardian spirit" is the meaning that[FONT=Gentium] [SIZE=3]δαίμονες [FONT=Verdana][SIZE=2]possesses in Matthew or that [SIZE=2]the usage of the term with this meaning is an unusual one.
The general meaning of the term "daimon" has already been outlined via references to a number of sources including the TDNT. This general meaning is generally consistent with an indwelling divine spirit and has been used by many Greek philosophers, Emperors and other writers in a manner that is certainly NOT representative by the meaning "devil" or "evil demon", as does the author of Matthew.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthew 8:31

Vaticanus text of Mat 8:31

Quote:
So the devils "daimons" besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.


Note that the very first line is derived from the final line in column 2
and the next lines are from the top of column 3.

The entire point of the OP is to draw attention to the use of the term in Matthew (and of course via the TR to other authors of the gospels).

Whoever wrote Matt 8:31 could have selected another term to present his story about Jesus healing the people, but the term used is "daimones". If we step back and apply the abbreviated term into Matt we get:

Quote:
So the devils "[indwelling] gods, goddesses or inferior deities" besought him, saying, If thou cast us out, suffer us to go away into the herd of swine.

Quote:
The classical uses of the term as a god, a goddess or an inferior deity, [I]whether good or bad (my emphasis -- because you seem to constantly ignote this portion of the text you quote)
I have acknowledged that the classical tradition uses the term whether bad or good, although in the large the term has been used to reflect something which is good and not bad.

It is precisely the Christian usage of the term, commencing from Matthew, which uses the term in a bad, negative sense, as "devil" or "evil spirit".


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So if "guardian spirit" was the general meaning of the term before Matthew, Matthew can hardly be subverting its meaning by using it to mean "guardian spirit".
As you are aware, the general term frequently used throughout the NT and LXX is "daimonion" and this is used generally in the negative sense of "devils, bad spirits". When Matthew however used the root term "daimon(es)", which is not the same as the derivative "daimonion", he uses the term within the context of an indwelling "crazy mad evil devil".

This is antithetical to its classical general meaning.




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And what's with the assertion that Matthew was paving the way for a doctrine of the "holy spirit". Are you actually saying that Christians had no doctrine of τὸ πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον until after Matthew was wriiten??

Sorry, Pete. But this is just more horseshit. Your conclusions are agenda, not evidenced, based. And once again you show that you have no idea what you are talking about.
The gospel authors and others report themselves to have been "filled with the Holy Spirit" and to be used as instruments by the HS to write their agenda driven propaganda.


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... You do realize don't you that this is exactly the same sort of "scholarship" that is characteristic of Pete. He bases many of his claims on what a reviewer says a given book says, rather than on the books themselves.

...
This is not quite accurate. Pete would take a big step forward if he read intelligent, scholarly reviews of the relevant literature.

Kurt Aland in discussing "The Problem of Anonymity and Pseudonymity in Christian Literature of the First Two Centuries" introduces the hypothesis that we need not really worry about these problems of Anonymity and Pseudonymity because these unknown authors are "instruments of the Holy Spirit". This is the el primo horseshit.


Sorry Jeffrey, but the entire Christian Theological industry is based on this horseshit of the Holy Spirit (and its apostolic instruments) and its conclusions are agenda, not evidenced, based.





εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia
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Old 03-21-2013, 05:31 PM   #190
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So if you don't like me and you despise everyone else why'd you come back? Looking for recommendations on good dog groomers in your area?
And yet another instance of peititio principii and ad hominem ...

Nice work!

Jeffrey
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