FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Philosophy & Religious Studies > History of Abrahamic Religions & Related Texts
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 01:23 AM

Notices

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 10-02-2013, 10:52 PM   #11
stephan huller
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

Don't know about Sputnik
stephan huller is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 11:05 PM   #12
MrMacSon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 559
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
Don't know about Sputnik
probably the Gospel of Marcion
Quote:
" ... the inclusion of Matthew, Mark, and John was an attempt to lose the Gospel of Marcion (a shorter predecessor of Luke) ...
add: was the "Gospel of Marcion" also the Euangelion, or the 'Gospel of the Lord'??
MrMacSon is offline  
Old 10-02-2013, 11:10 PM   #13
MrMacSon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 559
Default

or maybe the Apostolicon ( ten epistles of Paul, not including the pastorals)??
MrMacSon is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 12:16 AM   #14
Toto
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Price refers to the Apostolicon as the Marcionite Sputnik, because it had the same effect on the proto-catholic church as the Russian Sputnik did on the US - it spurred them into action to produce their own canon of Christian, non-Jewish scripture.
Toto is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 12:20 AM   #15
MrMacSon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Pacific
Posts: 559
Default

Cheers.
MrMacSon is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 01:07 PM   #16
andrewcriddle
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Birmingham UK
Posts: 4,876
Default

FWIW much fruit in John 15:5 is KARPON POLUN not POLUN KARPON

Andrew Criddle
andrewcriddle is offline  
Old 10-03-2013, 01:25 PM   #17
stephan huller
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: seattle, wa
Posts: 9,337
Default

But is Deuteronomy 32:4 "his perfect work" or "his ways are perfect"? I've seen both translation with the former more correct. When you see the way Jews and Samaritans substitute the Aramaic 'image' for the Hebrew 'rock' in the same passage, does word order really determine meaning? Polycarp is attested as a slave's name but it also seems to be a major theological interest of Irenaeus (now filtered as 'scripture'). I think one of Polycarp's miracles in the Acts of Pionius was also to make a drought stricken field fruitful again. I don't know that you can discount the association with Polycarp's name and John 15:5 by word order alone. The fact that Irenaeus apparently didn't use the name 'Polycarp' with Florinus makes me think it was a made up name to disguise something else.

FWIW Peregrinus is said by Lucian to keep changing his name too. They were martyrs roughly at the same time, by fire and with reports of a bird flying out of the fire and associated with the post-humously created letters of Ignatius.
stephan huller is offline  
Old 10-04-2013, 12:10 AM   #18
Peter Kirby
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor
Posts: 4,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
People don't seem to have a sense of humor around here.
Guess I didn't know the context. My mistake. :redface:
Peter Kirby is online now   Edit/Delete Message
Old 10-04-2013, 12:15 AM   #19
Peter Kirby
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor
Posts: 4,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by stephan huller View Post
Trobisch argues that the last line in John is not about John but the whole four gospels because they were established as one gospel set.
Relevant to this (as a counterpoint) is the so-called Western order of the first five books of the New Testament: Matthew, John, Luke, Mark, Acts. This order is attested from p45 in the third century, a relatively early manuscript.

Doesn't really prove anything, though, as usual. :banghead:
Peter Kirby is online now   Edit/Delete Message
Old 10-04-2013, 12:20 AM   #20
Peter Kirby
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: the reliquary of Ockham's razor
Posts: 4,035
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMacSon View Post
ok, Jackasses. I'm intrigued they propose Polycarp was the [primary] editor and [first] publisher of the NT

ie. proposing an early-mid 2nd C NT.
According to the text of Polycarp, he also collected the letters of Ignatius. This guy was busy.

That Marcion was reacting to an established catholic-leaning canon of texts was a popular view, once. Putting Polycarp's NT before Marcion seems to bring that idea back (if that is the proposed order).

However, given that Irenaeus "sat at the feet of Polycarp" and so gosh darn lurved the four-fold canon, I find it hard to believe that Irenaeus wouldn't try to bring Polycarp to bear on the question if there really was anything at all to say.
Peter Kirby is online now   Edit/Delete Message
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 11:35 AM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.