TedM

It occurs to me that it is rather extraordinary that Christianity began within 50 years of the Jewish Temple destruction. Mankind's most dominant religion began, and it claims to have replaced the need for the Jewish Temple. The Jewish people revered their temple as the most Holy place to worship their God, and yet it is destroyed physically within 50 years of the religion that claims it was replaced spiritually.

Coincidence?

I see 3 viewpoints:

1. Jesus really prophesied it, or was very insightful. Favored by believers and those that think Jesus was a genius.

2. It is a coincidence. Favored by the Doherty and the HJ group.

3. Christianity developed directly as a result of the temple destruction. Favored by the conspiracy minded group as an explanation for Christianity's origins. Some in the Doherty or HJ group may also favor this as the impetus for Christianity to have spread more quickly AFTER the temple destruction (ie the rationale of a new spiritual temple hit home with Jews and Romans alike).

...

aa5874

The Jesus cult was a Laughing stock up to the time of Marcion and operating in secret in the 2nd century. The Jesus cult appears to have been engaged in forgeries, false attribution and mis-representation of their own history.

Grog

Really? This is how you see this?

outhouse

Yes, but this helped to excellerate the growth of said movement.



The temple was on some very thin ice the whole time it was being rebuilt.


The Roman axe was always hanging overhead, it was a cash cow for the Romans, and it only survived because it produced.


The Jews were not happy with the corruption as the temple was forced to extort tithes just to stay in buisiness.


It had it coming from both ends and was a hotbed of political strife



Why not? The movement existed in and all through the Disapora before its fall.

When it fell, the movement was quite small compared to all other sects and ways to worship.


How so? the movement was popular with Gentiles not just Proselytes who worshiped in the temple.

Did it devistate The Jews who were fed up with the corruption of the hated Saducees? Jews didnt want to become a member of this sect as they viewed Jesus as a failed messiah.


What we do see over the next few hundred years though, is that Hellensitic Judaism disappeared, and many think Christianity absorbed that aspect competely, in time.

TedM

outhouse, I'm not sure you are following me..


Ok, this would be #3 then.



First, the temple was not in danger of being destroyed by the Jews. Second, you yourself said that it was a cash cow for the Romans. In any case what is extraordinary is that for 2000 years the temple has remained destroyed and Christianity has continued to flourish, while claiming all along (see Paul) to be the replacement. So it isn't just the fact that it was destroyed but also the fact that it has remained destroyed while Christianity has flourished for 2000 years.



And yet it is the only one claiming to replace the old Jewish Law, represented by the temple..see above for why I see this as a BIG coincidence, if that's what it is...




ask aa. Seriously, the Gentile converts may have seen it as confirmation of the claim that Jesus was the replacement of the old Jewish Law so that they(Gentiles) might be saved.


I don't know the history but I would think that nearly every Jew who believed in the priesthood and the torah was devastated when the temple fell.

outhouse

How many were happy with the corruption within it?

How many were happy with coins of pagan deities inside its walls?

How many were really happy with the Hellenism?


Jews are exactly the cause of the temples failure. Jews could have took down the temple anytime. We dont know that jesus did not try and failed where later zealots succeeded.




This has nothing to do with anything realted to coincidence, but everything to do with how Judaism changed culturally.

Hellenist rebuilt the temple, and Hellenist moved on too Christianity





Yes and no. Traditional Jews may have loved the "place" more then the way Hellenist recreated gods house and used it as a money making deviece. Similar to a modern day rock concert if you were all forced to go to the Hellenistic Jewish treasury to pay taxes.

The temple was many things to many people. It wasnt just gods house.

TedM

That's different than what I'm saying.





OF COURSE there are rational explanations for coincidences but that doesn't make them any less coincidental, IF they are unrelated. It sounds like you may be saying that indirectly they were related--maybe closely due to cultural changes-so they really can't be considered a significant coincidence. If so, ok..but its not as though the Jews that contributed to the temple's destruction were the same Jews that created Christianity and the 'replacement' of the temple, right? If they weren't the same Jews then that's a coincidence, no? Maybe I'm missing something here...?



ok, thanks.

Toto

This is just bizarre.

In the first place, Christianity is not "mankind's most dominant religion." By numbers, I think that would have to be Islam.

As for your options:

The believers think that Jesus prophesied it, because he had divine insight.

Mainstream scholars think that the prophecies were written into the text after they happened.

Almost everyone sees the destruction as having an impact on the development of both Christianity and rabbinic Judaism, whether that was the start of Christianity or not. For rabbinic Judaism, various other rituals and worship replaced the Temple.

The real conspiracy buffs think that Constantine invented Christianity, and the actual destruction of the Temple had little to do with it, except that (for Joseph Atwill) Christianity was designed to replace Temple worship, and the Christians were the dupes who bought this idea. <Atwill has no followers here, so don't bother trying to expand on this.>

Do you seriously think that the idea that Christianity replaced Temple worship is a core Christian value? :constern02: What about the idea that both Christianity and Judaism have flourished without the Temple? Not to mention Islam, which has a lot to do with why the Temple has not been restored?

TedM

It's still Christianity:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...us_populations




Absolutely because it did away with the Law, and therefore the need for the Temple. That is THE theology of Christianity. It's bizarre to me that you aren't aware of this.

Toto

The destruction of the Temple did not do away with the Law. Jews continue to follow the law.

The destruction of the Temple only did away with the Temple Priesthood and the sacrifices that could only be done at the Temple. There are still the 614 requirements that orthodox Jews try to follow.

If you believe that Christ's sacrifice did away with the need for the law, at least for some people, Christianity places that sacrifice well before the destruction of the Temple, so I don't see how the end of the law and the destruction of the Temple are connected.