Tristan Scott

But not based on the sayings attributed to him which would appear to make him a cynic.

Jaybees

Splintering seems to be a universal trait of religions. Judaism, Xtianity, Buddhism, Islam, etc. It's like fungi producing spores.

outhouse

We don't know how many sayings are his, or just mirror his teachings, or are attributed to him, or are fictional.


There are some that place him as a cynic, but what I posted was more culturally in line for the socioeconomics of Galilee. How much cynic influence the man may have had is unknown.

outhouse

I wish we really knew what his doctrinal positions really were.

I think this aspect reflects the authors more then the man.


Zealots were supposed to have a zeal for the law, and held traditions tightly. This also mirrors some of the Pharisees aspects. Some Pharisees were not opposed to the Zealots. It is easier to place the Jesus character in the Zealot sect as some of his inner circle were claimed to be, added to the fact Galileans were known to be Zealots under a blanket term.


The Pharisees were a divided sect and multi cultural within the lines of Hellenism. Zealots were not.


I will say you have a point, but since I cant describe him as a Zealot with confidence. I don't think anyone can claim he was a Pharisee a long the lines of traditional Judaism sympathetic to the causes the Zealots fought for.

James The Least

So BibleJesus does not represent the real Jesus. How then are we supposed to infer that the real Jesus saw the Pharisees as crooks? Do you have an extraBiblical source that captures the ideas of the real Jesus?

outhouse

Josephus gives us a glimpse.

And biblical refferences while may not reflect the real Jesus, they do reflect traditions of that period that directly relate to Galileans and other peasants.


Its known that the Pharisees used Roman muscle to rape tithes.


The socioeconomics of Galilee also can give us a glimpse of what the man may have been like combined with cultural anthropology. Often times by what he wasnt more so then what he was.


Just because we cannot paint a clear picture of th emans actual face , doesnt mean we cant see the background and a outline.

Toto

Mr. o: Please avoid the term "rape" when referring to taxation.

"Legitimate" governments use the power of the state to collect tax money. If you don't think the government is legitimate, you regard that as theft. There's no need to add any sexual implications.

It is more the case that scholars who need to write something and have no actual information about Jesus turn to the general social history of Galilee and speculate about who Jesus might have been.

steve_bnk

I think JC said do as they say not as they do. Meaning they were hypocrites.

Pray in private instead of displaying your faith as the hypocrites do.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/prayer.htm

'...Matthew 6:5-6: "And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men....when thou prayest, enter into thy closet and when thou has shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...."

Two of the largest Jewish religious movements in 1st century Judea were the Pharisees and Sadducees. Jesus is recorded as having repeatedly criticized both -- often with rather hateful and vicious language. Much of Jesus' anger may have been motivated by their prayer methods which were very public....'



"Even so you too outwardly appear righteous to men, but inwardly you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." (Matthew 23:26).

If a Christian mystic wandered out of the desert today he could conceptually play out the NT backdrop.

Go to a mega church with millionaire ministers, overturn a few tables, and proclaim a house of prayer not commerce.

Go to DC and give a Sermon On The Mount, updated.

When you think about it the time is ripe or a true blue Christian prophet/reformer.

What are the Pat Roberson's and Nret Gingrichs of the country but the religious political/economic/ power elite.

There are Christians, not very noisy, who oppose that kind of materialist Christianity.

In the NT times JC would not likely have been alone in his views.

outhouse

Exactly.

Add to that while he was alive he was a nobody.


Only with his martydom and death did fame ever find him.


We factually have a different culture then he belonged to, writing about him from a different geographic location, writing for the mans very enemies.

Davka

I don't assume that there is or was any such individual as a "real Jesus." All we have to go by are the NT writings, and a handful of Gnostic gospels. When I talk about BibleJesus, I do so in the same way that I might discuss the thoughts and deeds of Harry Potter or Bilbo Baggins. I'm referencing the character in the books, with no judgement implied as to whether or not that character is based on a real person.