Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 06-03-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

Regarding John the Baptist: As far as I’m aware, there is no historical evidence that he existed. It’s more likely that JtB is a figure that Josephus has used as a marker, a place holder, for his historical interpretations, his re-telling of history, his remembering, his memorial to past historical figures. His prophetic interests, ideas such as history repeating itself, what goes around comes around etc, should not be ignored....

So, what is the historical evidence that Antigonus in Josephus existed?

JonA · 06-03-2011, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Curiously, you left out establishing the reality of Jesus before moving on to the baptism.

Because the alternative is a fringe theory that is not the subject of this thread.

Jon

blastula · 06-03-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Curiously, you left out establishing the reality of Jesus before moving on to the baptism.

Because the alternative is a fringe theory that is not the subject of this thread.

Jon

So? Same could be said of JtB.

blastula · 06-03-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

Regarding John the Baptist: As far as I’m aware, there is no historical evidence that he existed.

You mean, other than Josephus and Christian texts.

JonA · 06-03-2011, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Because the alternative is a fringe theory that is not the subject of this thread.

Jon

So? Same could be said of JtB.

Huh?

blastula · 06-03-2011, 05:58 PM

Um, that a mythical (or unknowable) JtB is a minority opinion (and yet you tried to establish his historicity anyway, unlike with Jesus). Is standard English a problem for you, JonA?

Besides, appealing to authority impresses few around here. Everyone knows what the major consensuses are. There would be nothing to post, if consensus were the final word.

Unless you can explain why the majority opinion should be convincing, arguing by citing it is wasting everyone's time.

JonA · 06-03-2011, 06:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Unless you can explain why the majority opinion should be convincing, arguing by citing it is wasting everyone's time.

Perhaps you can show where I tried to argue that the consensus was convincing.

Jon

blastula · 06-03-2011, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Unless you can explain why the majority opinion should be convincing, arguing by citing it is wasting everyone's time.

Perhaps you can show where I tried to argue that the consensus was convincing.

Forgetful much?

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Curiously, you left out establishing the reality of Jesus before moving on to the baptism.

Because the alternative is a fringe theory that is not the subject of this thread.

You response there also fails for that the subject of the thread does entail establishing the historicity of JtB and Jesus, not just JtB.

You've also appealed to consensus here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Who is questioning that the letters of Paul and the gospels were written in the first century/early second? Is any serious scholar proposing that they date to no earlier than the fourth century?

and again in that post,

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Good thing you don't have to, since many unbiased historians have done the research that has led to these conclusions.

JonA · 06-03-2011, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blastula

Quote:

Originally Posted by JonA

Perhaps you can show where I tried to argue that the consensus was convincing.

Forgetful much?

I must be, because I do not remember ever appealing to consensus, even after reading those quotemines you posted.

Jon

maryhelena · 06-03-2011, 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Quote:

Originally Posted by maryhelena

Regarding John the Baptist: As far as I’m aware, there is no historical evidence that he existed. It’s more likely that JtB is a figure that Josephus has used as a marker, a place holder, for his historical interpretations, his re-telling of history, his remembering, his memorial to past historical figures. His prophetic interests, ideas such as history repeating itself, what goes around comes around etc, should not be ignored....

So, what is the historical evidence that Antigonus in Josephus existed?

http://www.wildwinds.com/coins/greec...tigonus/t.html

Quote:

"Mattathias Antigonus (Mattatayah) AE 25 mm. Double cornucopiae with Hebrew (Mattatayah the High Priest and Council of the Jews), around and between horns / Ivy wreath tied at top with ribbons hanging down; inscription (of King Antigonus). Meshorer 36f."

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version	Search this Thread: Advanced Search

06-03-2011, 05:58 PM	#96
blastula Veteran Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: USA Posts: 6,070	Um, that a mythical (or unknowable) JtB is a minority opinion (and yet you tried to establish his historicity anyway, unlike with Jesus). Is standard English a problem for you, JonA? Besides, appealing to authority impresses few around here. Everyone knows what the major consensuses are. There would be nothing to post, if consensus were the final word. Unless you can explain why the majority opinion should be convincing, arguing by citing it is wasting everyone's time.

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.