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Old 08-04-2013, 05:39 PM   #1
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Default Jesus reading & writing

Parts of the canonical gospels say Jesus could read and write. Luke 4 tells us of an incident where Jesus read [from the prophet Isaiah 58:6].

Quote:
14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.
15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read

17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,

19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.

There is a passage in John 8 that refers to Jesus writing:
Quote:
1 Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them.


3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him,
Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?
6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up & said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.*

9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her,[i] “Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[j] Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

12 Then Jesus spoke to them [??] again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.
* This is considered by some to be reference to Jeremiah 17:13
13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.
One might have expected Jesus to have written something of his thoughts or teachings.
There is reference to Jesus not needing to write anything because there were plenty of scribes to do that for him, so one might expect some records or copies of transcriptions from the time?
.
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Old 08-04-2013, 05:52 PM   #2
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Why the NT narrative might have Jesus writing in the dirt on the ground is discussed here (though as a proposal that Jesus was fulfilling an OT prophecy about what He would do when He came; rather than as a proposition that the NT had been written to retrospectively address the OT prophecy) -
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Whenever someone was caught in adultery, both the man and the woman [[with two eyewitnesses]] would be brought to the Nicanor temple gates and accused ... in this instance they only brought the woman. This was a violation of the Oral Law of God.

Secondly, the priest was required to then stoop down and write the law that had been broken, along with the names of the accused, in the dust of the floor of the Temple (which Jesus did) [actually, the priest could write the law and the names anywhere, as long as the marks were not permanent - and the dust of the floor of the Temple was the most common place]. By doing this, Jesus showed these accusers that THEY were not keeping the law, but He would anyway. (As an aside-two eyewitnesses must be present, and there is no mention of the witnesses’ presence in this scene. The Scribes and Pharisees just say she was caught in the act. By whom?)

The Scribes and Pharisees ignored the law, brought the woman only, and then continued with accusations. So Jesus stood up (after plainly demonstrating they were violating the law themselves) and said "He who is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her" John 8:7). THEY did not want to cast the stone, they wanted Jesus to condemn her, so they continued accusing.

http://www.preachitteachit.org/artic...and-in-john-8/
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Old 08-04-2013, 09:03 PM   #3
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Or he may have just been doodling like people do today when talking on the phone or contemplating an answer to a question.

As for him asking the accusers without sin to cast the first stone, I've been told that they were committing adultery with her and knew they were wrong accusing her. So they left.

I also think the whole story is made up to show that Jesus was not an accuser but a wise man who told her, don't do that anymore because the next time no one will be able to get you out of trouble.
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Old 08-04-2013, 10:36 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMacSon View Post
Parts of the canonical gospels say Jesus could read and write. Luke 4 tells us of an incident where Jesus read [from the prophet Isaiah 58:6].

Quote:
14 Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.
15 He was teaching in their synagogues, and everyone praised him.

16 He went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. He stood up to read

17 and the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him. Unrolling it, he found the place where it is written:
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is on me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners
and recovery of sight for the blind,
to set the oppressed free,

19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
20 Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him.
21 He began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.”

22 All spoke well of him and were amazed at the gracious words that came from his lips. “Isn’t this Joseph’s son?” they asked.

There is a passage in John 8 that refers to Jesus writing:
Quote:
1 Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.

2 early in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them.


3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him,
Teacher, this woman was caught in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded us that such should be stoned. But what do You say?
6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.

7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up & said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.”

8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground.*

9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience, went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst.

10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her,[i] “Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[j] Has no one condemned you?”

11 She said, “No one, Lord.”

And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and sin no more.”

12 Then Jesus spoke to them [??] again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.
* This is considered by some to be reference to Jeremiah 17:13
13 O Lord, the hope of Israel, all that forsake thee shall be ashamed, and they that depart from me shall be written in the earth, because they have forsaken the Lord, the fountain of living waters.
One might have expected Jesus to have written something of his thoughts or teachings.
There is reference to Jesus not needing to write anything because there were plenty of scribes to do that for him, so one might expect some records or copies of transcriptions from the time?
.
Well...current thinking is that Jesus was an illiterate laborer from a backwater suburb of Sepphoris. He might have known some Greek but would not have been proficient and the likelihood that he would have access to learning writing and reading would have been limited. I find it improbable that such a character would have been followed all the way Jerusalem and create any movement of any size or credibility.
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Old 08-05-2013, 09:39 AM   #5
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I find it improbable that such a character would have been followed all the way Jerusalem and create any movement of any size or credibility.
Who says he was followed by any decent sized crowd, mythology?

He wasnt remembered or written about prior to his death, because before his death in my opinion, he was a nobody from a small poor village.

He was however remembered for his actions in the temple in front of hundreds of thousands of attendants who generated oral tradition that grew from legend to mythology.


Reading and writing abilities are guessed at due to lack of reliable information regarding these details. If I had to guess, Id say he was illiterate as common as it was for the poor.
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Old 08-05-2013, 04:08 PM   #6
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The story in John is not original to the Gospel and was a medieval insertion, so it indicates nothing.

Luke's pericope about Jesus reading in the synagogue is identifiable as fictive because it has Jesus reading from the LXX, not the Hebrew, and has him reading two passages that are not close together on the scroll. It's also anachronistic because there were no synagogues in Galilee in the 1st Century.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by outhouse View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog View Post
I find it improbable that such a character would have been followed all the way Jerusalem and create any movement of any size or credibility.
Who says he was followed by any decent sized crowd, mythology?

He wasnt remembered or written about prior to his death, because before his death in my opinion, he was a nobody from a small poor village.

He was however remembered for his actions in the temple in front of hundreds of thousands of attendants who generated oral tradition that grew from legend to mythology.


Reading and writing abilities are guessed at due to lack of reliable information regarding these details. If I had to guess, Id say he was illiterate as common as it was for the poor.

Josephus does not record any such event. He does record an eerily similar event that would have happened during his lifetime concerning a different Jesus disrupting the Temple, getting interrogated, then flogged by the Roman governor. That one was recorded.
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:32 PM   #8
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The same book claims he walked on water, drove out demons, cursed trees, fed a multitude and came back from the dead? Why believe anything written in that silly book?
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diogenes the Cynic View Post
The story in John is not original to the Gospel and was a medieval insertion, so it indicates nothing.

Luke's pericope about Jesus reading in the synagogue is identifiable as fictive because it has Jesus reading from the LXX, not the Hebrew, and has him reading two passages that are not close together on the scroll. It's also anachronistic because there were no synagogues in Galilee in the 1st Century.
In pre-70s Galilee. Aren't there late first century synagogues? Anyway...Yes, concerning Luke's story, which should help us date that Gospel, right?
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Old 08-05-2013, 05:34 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by outhouse View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grog View Post
I find it improbable that such a character would have been followed all the way Jerusalem and create any movement of any size or credibility.
Who says he was followed by any decent sized crowd, mythology?

He wasnt remembered or written about prior to his death, because before his death in my opinion, he was a nobody from a small poor village.

He was however remembered for his actions in the temple in front of hundreds of thousands of attendants who generated oral tradition that grew from legend to mythology.


Reading and writing abilities are guessed at due to lack of reliable information regarding these details. If I had to guess, Id say he was illiterate as common as it was for the poor.
outhouse, you cherry pick the evidence. Your source says Jesus attracted a sizeable following, which you reject. Your source says Jesus created a disturbance in the Temple, which you accept. Why one and not the other? What methodology, other than your own preference, do you select one truth from the other?
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