Jeffrey Gibson

And just how do you determine what are indications of "tampering"? What are your criteria for seeing something as a "tampered" text?


Do you know what the fallacy of bifurcation is?

Jeffrey

Sheshbazzar

Can't answer the question eh?
And here you almost had us convinced that you were an expert on the Greek NT texts.

Jeffrey Gibson

I can answer it well enough. But until I have an apology from you for your snotty tone, and a direct answer from you to my question about your competence in Greek, I see no reason why I should.

In any case, the issue is not what I believe about any, let alone all, of the "Pauline Epistles", but the validity of your claim that none of them are. Your claim is either true or it is not regardless of what I "believe".

Jeffrey

Sheshbazzar

I gave you a direct answer to your question of my competence in Greek. You may go back and read it again. Its not a long post.

In for a dime in for a dollar. You bet on some, and I'll bet on all.

But in that, I am placing my bet on a past and a future. Calling my shots in advance, as to what will yet be found. That scholarship will come to concede that none of the 'Pauline Epistles' are authentic to the 1st century CE.

Jeffrey Gibson

One wonders how you know that the details of Greek syntax and grammar -- which you seem not to know are things that scholars look at and consider vital for determining forgeries and interpolations -- are "diddly".

Again, because you say so?

Perhaps you'd grace us not only with stating where exactly in, say, Philippians we find contradiction and indications of tampering --but also with giving us the particular criteria you have used to make your determinations.

If that's too much of an ordeal for you, use Philemon.

Time to put your money where your mouth is.

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

No, you did not give me a direct answer. Nor have you given me an apology for your tone.

And just how will they do that? Why has scholarship not already done this? Why has it rejected the views of the small coterie of dutch radicals who already argued what you claim?

Jeffrey

aa5874

Again, where is the DATA that supports early Pailine letters?

Those who have claimed for years that the Pauline writings are early and composed before the Gospels cannot show their DATA.

There was never any data just mere presumptions and logical fallacies.

Well, it is now exposed that the argument for early Pauline writings cannot be maintained and never was.

The Pauline letters were composed to deceive and "historicise" the resurrection of Jesus and were really unknown in the 2nd century.

Quite remarkably, in the conversion of Justin Martyr in Dialague with Trypho and Caecilius in Minucius Felix "Octavius", there was not a mention of the conversion of Paul.

Sheshbazzar

No Jeffrey. I don't think you understand. I am not going to play your game by your rules.
And in respect and obedience to the 'New Forum Rules' I am certainly not going to go into any in-depth examination of Greek syntax and grammar in this thread, no matter how badly you want to induce others to play in your favorite playpen.



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Sheshbazzar

POST #70
Don't hold your breath Jeffrey, you'll only turn purple.

Do you suffer under some delusion that world history will end today?

The conclusion of the matter remains to be seen. The horse that in the lead is not always the one that takes the Sweepstakes.
The Dutch radicals placed their bets long ago, and the race is on.
Put your money on the leading horse (theory) if you will.
My bet is already on the one that is presently at the back of the pack.

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Toto

Nothing in the forum rules would rule out Sheshbazzar's discussion of Greek syntax or grammar in support of his claims.

Let's review some forum rules:

1. EVIDENCE: a) Posters should attempt to conform to standard scholarly methodologies. This means not only that claims made should always be supported in some evidential fashion (i.e., argumentation by assertion and by appeal to authority are not acceptable), but that analysis of texts should always be grounded in the awareness of their historical and cultural contexts.

Some attention needs to be paid to this.