Grog

What stories about Jesus do you think were passed along by oral tradition from say 30 AD until written down in 40 to 70 decades later?

Steven Carr

Yes, Joel connects to Gmail and explains that there is a glitch with Outlook running on Microsoft Exchange servers.....

outhouse

You mean what kernal of truth is there to any of it?" very little is my opinion.

outhouse

Good luck with that.

There are only problems is one over attributes historicity to the oral traditions.


Oral tradition cannot be used to disprove historicity in this perticular case.



It factually shows us that early on sects of different views were emerging, and these particular people believed in a living man who died, within decades after his death.

Toto

You have it backwards. No one is trying to disprove historicity using oral tradition. It is the historicists who are trying to prove something with "oral tradition."

What facts???

We know from studies of folklore and oral legends that it is possible for legends to arise within a few years of a person who never lived.

What point are you trying to make?

outhouse

It doesnt fall a part at all. The question was not about a authority who controls said traditions. Its the fact that that much information has the possibility to be retained and passed along.

We see many traditions, from different geographic locations as far as the movement is concerned.







None, it was a literary creation. It parallels the Emperors divinity as he spoke to large crowds.



When is the question, after the gospels came out, many emerged.

It is unknown how many actually existed prior to them being recorded on papyrus, by for our sake we see two different versions.



No historian claims authenticity, they flat claim we dont know. Now this doesnt mean anything other then we think they were collections of parables people attributed to him. No one can say with certainty they even started with him per say, only that these later authors believed its origins were from the Jesus character.




Agreed.





By years of formal education so that one can place the mythology into proper context, sometimes we will never know. Others lik ethe sermon on the mount we know are fiction. Reasons? Here is your example. For one, parables like that are not rambled off one after the other, they lose all meaning that way. Second, crowds like that would almost be a impossibility for crowds that size to assemble. Third discrepancies in gospel accounts as you already noted.





Lets work with a man was martyred at Passover who died a brutal death on a cross.

People would have talked about it. Hey what did you hear? I heard this xxxx xx xxx over time this grew far from the original events before they were gathered by people who found these phrases important.


We know within a few decades even Paul believed Jesus was a living man who died and was resurrected.





Agreed


I am. I dont think even Price or Carrier would argue against it.

whether or not there is a MJ or a real HJ, the books were compiled from oral tradition. We know the earliest works were compilations of material, like Gmark

outhouse

The facts that we have different versions of a Jesus character.




What about Judaism?


If we look at real mythical characters like say Noah or Moses, the events were not recorded a decade or two after the mans death. They were created hundreds of years afterwards.

Even then, some have th epossibility of historical cores.


Legends can arise from oral traditions in illiterate societies. HJ or MJ, legends arose from oral traditions about this character.

Toto

UPDATE:

Joel Watts has been nailed as a forger. He seems to be admitting it here.

I guess this is just the latest in two millennia of Christian forgeries.

stephan huller

joel probably thinks this is a big joke. I don't think he's admitting anything

Steven Carr

His screenshot shows 25/06/2013 as 'Yesterday', although his screenshot also shows that he sent some emails from 27/06/2013.

But Watts still denies everything.