Toto

Jeffrey did not admit that he was wrong. Earl has not admitted that he was wrong. :huh:

Jeffrey Gibson

Done what? Shown that someone has adduced a scholar as supporting one's case when the scholar clearly doesn't?

Admission??

Are you wrong in this claim?

It can't be if "we" = you are all (always) wrong.

Does the fact that something is now in the past mean we are wrong to claim that it really happened?

Is that claim true? Or are you wrong about it? If you are wrong about it, then being wrong is not the only truth.

Can anyone make out what Stephan is actually on about here?

And what on god's green earth does this have to do with the OP?

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

Did Stephan misread what I wrote and mistake the "he" in my sentence above as referring to me???

Jeffrey

Adam

Thanks for your explanation, Toto. What are all these fine points Jeffrey assumes we are to be seeing in his refutations of Earl? I do see that he shoots down Earl on lots of points here, but Jeffrey's #39 loses me.

Jeffrey does indeed score on lots of specifics in this thread, in spite of the victims charging that he never himself says anything specific. He does cite specifics in profusion, however, in refuting other posters here.

Not wanting to draw the wrath of The Kraken on me again, I do feel entitled to take some solace from Jeffrey's drubbing of me in my Significance of John thread that I never saw him take specific issue with me. Here in this thread we see him refuting specifics again and again. Does this imply that he could find nothing specific for this attacks against me in my thread, even when I invited him to comment on several vulnerable portions of my paper at
Significance of John Post #314?
Good chance to get specific, Jeffrey, without fearing a response as the thread gets locked when I post again.

Jeffrey Gibson

If you think I didn't take you to task several times on a variety of specifics of your source nonsense in your thread, you did not read closely or with comprehension what I wrote to you.

In any case -- and being very specific now -- please take your attention seeking messages elsewhere. I do not appreciate you hijacking my thread so that you can ride your hobby horse yet again.

Unless you have something to say that actually deals with, and is pertinent to, the exegesis of Gal. 1:12, please refrain from posting here.

And no, I will not answer here any questions from you about where I took specific issue with you. It is not appropriate to do so. And it would be a waste of my time.

Jeffrey

Vorkosigan

A quick question, I don't have Ehrman or Walker in front of me. How stable is Gal 1:12 in the textual tradition?

Vorkosigan

stephan huller

I didn't misread what you wrote. I'm just very impressed. Your presence is very much welcomed at this forum, at this forum. I'm very happy about my research right now and I just wanted to give someone a pat on the back.

stephan huller

FWIW Michael very few early Patristic references. I think Origen is the earliest. Tertullian Praescript Haer is listed but I don't see it. Neither did Schaff et al http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...alatians1.html

Jeffrey Gibson

Pretty stable. There's no discussion of it in Metzger's textual commentary.

The NA 27 apparatus has only this:


Swanson notes a few instances of variants of no significance.

Jeffrey

Jeffrey Gibson

The earliest Greek citation seems to be Eusebius. I cannot find a reference to it in Origen.


And since the issue is where in Patristic literature the text is cited, I'll hope I'll be forgiven for citibng the Greek test without giving the Englishtranslations of them.

And please for give any duplications. I did 2 searches, first using ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. as my search tern, second using οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον

And hey! Look! I made another claim AND backed it up with evidence. Will wonders never cease!
Jeffrey



Novum Testamentum, Epistula Pauli ad Galatas
Chapter 1, section 12, line 2

Γνωρίζω δὲ ὑμῖν, ἀδελφοί, τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τὸ εὐ-
αγγελισθὲν ὑπ' ἐμοῦ ὅτι οὐκ ἔστιν κατὰ ἄνθρωπον·
οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτό, οὔτε
ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Eusebius Scr. Eccl., Theol., Contra Marcellum
Book 1, chapter 1, section 25, line 8

ὡς γὰρ ψιλὸν ἄνθρω-
πον ὑπολαμβάνουσιν τὸν Χριστὸν προσῆγεν τὴν διόρθωσιν, οὐκ
ἄνθρωπον αὐτὸν κατὰ τὴν ἀρχὴν τῆς ἐπιστολῆς διδάσκων· καὶ
προϊὼν τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἔλεγεν ὅτι «τὸ εὐαγγέλιόν μου, τὸ εὐαγγελισθὲν
εἰς ὑμᾶς, οὐκ ἔστιν κατὰ ἄνθρωπον, οὐδὲ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρ-
έλαβον αὐτὸ οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ»,
δι' ὧν αὖθις ὅτι μὴ ἄνθρωπος ἦν Ἰησοῦς Χριστὸς παρίστη.
Go to Context


Marcellus Theol., De incarnatione et contra Arianos
Page 1013, line 25

Καὶ τό γε θαυμα-
στὸν, τοῦ Ἰησοῦ εἰπόντος Παύλῳ ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ· Πο-
ρεύου, ὅτι εἰς ἔθνη μακρὰν ἐξαποστέλλω σε· καὶ
τοῦ Παύλου Γαλάταις γράφοντος, Παῦλος ἀπόστο-
λος οὐκ ἀπ' ἀνθρώπων, οὐδὲ δι' ἀνθρώπου, ἀλλὰ
διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, καὶ Θεοῦ Πατρὸς τοῦ ἐγεί-
ραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν· καὶ μετ' ὀλίγον·
Γνωρίζω δὲ ὑμῖν, ἀδελφοὶ, τὸ Εὐαγγέλιον τοῦτο,
ὅτι οὐκ ἔστι κατὰ ἄνθρωπον· οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην,
ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ· τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον ἀποστεῖλαν τόν τε Παῦλον καὶ τὸν Βαρνάβαν
φαίνεται, κηρῦξαι τοῖς ἔθνεσι τὸν Χριστόν.
Go to Context


Joannes Chrysostomus Scr. Eccl., In epistulam ad Galatas commentarius
Vol 61, pg 626, ln 26

Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρ-
έλαβον αὐτὸ, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀπο-
καλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. Ὅρα πῶς ἄνω καὶ
κάτω τοῦτο διισχυρίζεται, ὅτι τοῦ Χριστοῦ γέγονε
μαθητὴς, οὐκ ἀνθρώπου μεσιτεύοντος, ἀλλ' αὐτοῦ
δι' ἑαυτοῦ καταξιώσαντος ἀποκαλύψαι τὴν γνῶσιν
αὐτῷ πᾶσαν.
Go to Context


Joannes Damascenus Scr. Eccl., Theol., Contra Nestorianos
Section 28, line 6

Γράφει γοῦν πρὸς Γαλάτας·
»Παῦλος ἀπόστολος οὐκ ἀπ' ἀνθρώπων οὐδὲ δι' ἀνθρώπου, ἀλλὰ διὰ
Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ», καὶ πάλιν· «Γνωρίζω ὑμῖν τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τὸ εὐαγγε-
λισθὲν ὑπ' ἐμοῦ, ὅτι οὐκ ἔστι κατὰ ἄνθρωπον· οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ
ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως
Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Joannes Damascenus Scr. Eccl., Theol., Commentarii in epistulas Pauli [Dub.]
Volume 95, page 781, line 2

Ἵνα οὖν μὴ
νομίσωσιν, ὅτι αὐτοῖς ἀπολογούμενος τοῦτο ποιεῖ,
καὶ ἐπαρθῶσιν, διὰ τοῦτο φησιν· Ἄρτι γὰρ ἀνθρώ-
πους πείθω.
»Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρ' ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐ-
τὸ, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην· ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ
Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., Commentarii in Joannem
Volume 1, page 508, line 28

καὶ γοῦν ἐφ' ἑαυτῷ καλῶς δὴ λίαν ὁ Παῦλος
ἀποσεμνύνεται, περὶ τοῦ κατὰ Χριστὸν μυστηρίου βοῶν
“Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρ' ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ, ἢ ἐδιδά-
“χθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., Fragmenta in sancti Pauli epistulam i ad Corinthios
Page 297, line 18

>
Παραδεδωκέναι φησὶν αὐτοῖς οὐ τὸ εἰς νοῦν ἧκον ἁπλῶς
καὶ ἀβασανίστως εἰσδεδεγμένον, ἀλλ' εὐαγγέλιον ὃ παρέ-
λαβεν, ἐνιέντος αὐτῷ τὴν γνῶσιν τοῦ δι' ἡμᾶς ἐνηνθρωπη-
κότος· ἔφη γὰρ πάλιν ὁ αὐτὸς διὰ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου “Οὐδὲ
“γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην,
“ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., De incarnatione unigeniti
Aubert page 699, line 22

Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ
ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτό, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀπο-
καλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., Quod unus sit Christus
Aubert page 760, line 34

Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ
παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτό, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι'
ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., Thesaurus de sancta consubstantiali trinitate
Volume 75, page 472, line 15


Marcellus Theol., De incarnatione et contra Arianos (2041: 005); MPG 26.
Page 1013, line 24

Καὶ τό γε θαυμα-
στὸν, τοῦ Ἰησοῦ εἰπόντος Παύλῳ ἐν τῷ ἱερῷ· Πο-
ρεύου, ὅτι εἰς ἔθνη μακρὰν ἐξαποστέλλω σε· καὶ
τοῦ Παύλου Γαλάταις γράφοντος, Παῦλος ἀπόστο-
λος οὐκ ἀπ' ἀνθρώπων, οὐδὲ δι' ἀνθρώπου, ἀλλὰ
διὰ Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ, καὶ Θεοῦ Πατρὸς τοῦ ἐγεί-
ραντος αὐτὸν ἐκ νεκρῶν· καὶ μετ' ὀλίγον·
Γνωρίζω δὲ ὑμῖν, ἀδελφοὶ, τὸ Εὐαγγέλιον τοῦτο,
ὅτι οὐκ ἔστι κατὰ ἄνθρωπον· οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην,
ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ· τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ ἅγιον ἀποστεῖλαν τόν τε Παῦλον καὶ τὸν Βαρνάβαν
φαίνεται, κηρῦξαι τοῖς ἔθνεσι τὸν Χριστόν.
Go to Context


Joannes Chrysostomus Scr. Eccl., In epistulam ad Galatas commentarius (2062: 158); MPG 61.
Vol 61, pg 626, ln 24

Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρ-
έλαβον αὐτὸ, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀπο-
καλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ. Ὅρα πῶς ἄνω καὶ
κάτω τοῦτο διισχυρίζεται, ὅτι τοῦ Χριστοῦ γέγονε
μαθητὴς, οὐκ ἀνθρώπου μεσιτεύοντος, ἀλλ' αὐτοῦ
δι' ἑαυτοῦ καταξιώσαντος ἀποκαλύψαι τὴν γνῶσιν
αὐτῷ πᾶσαν.
Go to Context


Joannes Damascenus Scr. Eccl., Theol., Contra Nestorianos (2934: 010)
“Die Schriften des Johannes von Damaskos, vol. 4”, Ed. Kotter, B.
Berlin: De Gruyter, 1981; Patristische Texte und Studien 22.
Section 28, line 6

Γράφει γοῦν πρὸς Γαλάτας·
»Παῦλος ἀπόστολος οὐκ ἀπ' ἀνθρώπων οὐδὲ δι' ἀνθρώπου, ἀλλὰ διὰ
Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ», καὶ πάλιν· «Γνωρίζω ὑμῖν τὸ εὐαγγέλιον τὸ εὐαγγε-
λισθὲν ὑπ' ἐμοῦ, ὅτι οὐκ ἔστι κατὰ ἄνθρωπον· οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ
ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως
Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., Fragmenta in sancti Pauli epistulam i ad Corinthios (4090: 004)
“Sancti patris nostri Cyrilli archiepiscopi Alexandrini in D. Joannis evangelium, vol. 3”, Ed. Pusey, P.E.
Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1872, Repr. 1965.
Page 297, line 17

>
Παραδεδωκέναι φησὶν αὐτοῖς οὐ τὸ εἰς νοῦν ἧκον ἁπλῶς
καὶ ἀβασανίστως εἰσδεδεγμένον, ἀλλ' εὐαγγέλιον ὃ παρέ-
λαβεν, ἐνιέντος αὐτῷ τὴν γνῶσιν τοῦ δι' ἡμᾶς ἐνηνθρωπη-
κότος· ἔφη γὰρ πάλιν ὁ αὐτὸς διὰ τοῦ εὐαγγελίου “Οὐδὲ
“γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην,
“ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., De incarnatione unigeniti (4090: 026)
“Cyrille d'Alexandrie. Deux dialogues christologiques”, Ed. de Durand, G.M.
Paris: Cerf, 1964; Sources chrétiennes 97.
Aubert page 699, line 21

Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ
ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτό, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀπο-
καλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., Quod unus sit Christus (4090: 027)
“Cyrille d'Alexandrie. Deux dialogues christologiques”, Ed. de Durand, G.M.
Paris: Cerf, 1964; Sources chrétiennes 97.
Aubert page 760, line 33

Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ
παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτό, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι'
ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χριστοῦ.
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., Thesaurus de sancta consubstantiali trinitate (4090: 109); MPG 75.
Volume 75, page 461, line 10

Πῶς δὲ οὐκ ἀληθεύσει, Θεοῦ μυ-
στήριον ὀνομάζων τὸ Εὐαγγέλιον Χριστοῦ, ὁ μετὰ
πολλῆς παῤῥησίας εἰπών· «Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀν-
θρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ, οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλ' ὑπὸ
τοῦ Θεοῦ δηλαδή;
Go to Context


Cyrillus Theol., Thesaurus de sancta consubstantiali trinitate
Volume 75, page 472, line 14

Οὐδὲ γὰρ ἐγὼ παρὰ ἀνθρώπου παρέλαβον αὐτὸ,
οὐδὲ ἐδιδάχθην, ἀλλὰ δι' ἀποκαλύψεως Ἰησοῦ Χρι-
στοῦ.