Freethought & Rationalism Archive

outhouse · 08-01-2013, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrMacSon

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

... You cannot refute scholars,, but you do well following 1 obscure fringe scholarship.

This does not overturn the thousands of scholars with real educations that exceed mine and yours.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/1corinthians.html

First Corinthians is one of the four letters of Paul known as the Hauptbriefe, which are universally accepted to be authentic.The letter is usually dated c. 54/55 CE. Werner Georg Kummel states (Introduction to the New Testament, p. 275): "The genuineness of I Cor is not disputed: the letter is already clearly known in I Clem 37:5; 47:1-3; 49:5; Ign., Eph 16:1; 18:1; Rom 5:1; Phila 3:3."

yet

Quote:

"First and Second Corinthians have garnered particular suspicion, with some [biblical] scholars, among them

Edgar_Goodspeed and

Norman Perrin, supposing one or both texts as we have them today are actually amalgamations of multiple individual letters. There remains considerable discussion as to the presence of possible significant interpolations. However, such textual corruption is difficult to detect and even more so to verify, leaving little agreement as to the extent of the epistles' integrity."

Authorship_of_the_Pauline_epistles#The_.22undisput ed.22_epistles

Excellent quote mining.

You forgot this from your link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authors...ed.22_epistles

The name "undisputed" epistles represents the traditional scholarly consensus asserting that Paul authored each letter

I agree that Second Corinthians should be looked at carefully. It is more suspect then the first epistle.

outhouse · 08-01-2013, 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Did Paul write Galatians by Frank R. McGuire

So Frank there is just some author? not a scholar?

outhouse · 08-01-2013, 10:58 AM

What about this? Oh I know, untrained forum members always know more then real scholars with a credible educations.

http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/romans.html

Romans is one of the four letters of Paul known as the Hauptbriefe, which are universally accepted as authentic. It is typically dated c. 57 CE.

Toto · 08-01-2013, 11:21 AM

What do you think that you are proving by finding the word "undisputed" online? It has already been demonstrated that there are disputes.

Toto · 08-01-2013, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

Did Paul write Galatians by Frank R. McGuire

So Frank there is just some author? not a scholar?

His work is quite scholarly, and has been cited by scholars. I found no biographical information for him, except that he is Canadian.

Clivedurdle · 08-01-2013, 11:52 AM

Quote:

Baur did not systematically reduce the thirteen letters attributable to Paul from thirteen to four. His sense of history led him to suppose that the adaptation of a primitive Jewish Christian gospel for Gentile consumption must have brought Paul into conflict with the earlier apostles, and Galatians appeared to reflect just such a struggle. In this and other respects, the major epistles seemed enough alike that Baur accepted all four.

From Did Paul Write Galatians.

So it all depends on the starting assumptions.....

outhouse · 08-01-2013, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

I found no biographical information for him, except that he is Canadian.

I came up empty as well

outhouse · 08-01-2013, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

What do you think that you are proving by finding the word "undisputed" online? It has already been demonstrated that there are disputes.

I don't think 1 or 2 to 10,000 counts as a valid or credible dispute.

Its why Prices work sadly goes unnoticed

Toto · 08-01-2013, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outhouse

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

What do you think that you are proving by finding the word "undisputed" online? It has already been demonstrated that there are disputes.

I don't think 1 or 2 to 10,000 counts as a valid or credible dispute.

Its why Prices work sadly goes unnoticed

You have a completely unrealistic idea of the number of scholars involved in this enterprise.

Let me remind you of your previous quote :

Quote:

The name "undisputed" epistles represents the traditional scholarly consensus asserting that Paul authored each letter

It is a traditional consensus, or the traditional conventional wisdom. If you are determined not to expand your mind beyond the opinion of the last generation of Christians, you can stop there, but it's a very unsatisfactory stance, and there is not much to discuss.

At least figure out why those gentlemen decided that some of Paul's letters were "undisputed." Then you might have something to discuss. But no one here cares to see you continually copying a few internet sources that you don't fully understand, that claim some things are "undisputed."

outhouse · 08-01-2013, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toto

But no one here cares to see you continually copying a few internet sources that you don't fully understand, that claim some things are "undisputed."

You have no idea what I understand. That is a personal attack.

No one cares about you constantly attacking the historicity of biblical figures following unsubstantiated fringe positions.

Like it or not Van Manen's work does not refute Paul's historicity in the slightest.

Quote:

If you are determined not to expand your mind beyond the opinion of the last generation of Christians

This is a very weak attack which amounts to desperation when faced with a wall you cannot climb.

I have never followed apologetically inclined scholarships.

You have also made another false unsubstantiated assumption, that I follow second and third hand sources as my primary means of furthering my education. I read plenty of scholars work and follow plenty of professors with different credible opinions. :constern01:

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08-01-2013, 10:58 AM	#43
outhouse Veteran Member Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Auburn ca Posts: 4,269	What about this? Oh I know, untrained forum members always know more then real scholars with a credible educations. http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/romans.html Romans is one of the four letters of Paul known as the Hauptbriefe, which are universally accepted as authentic. It is typically dated c. 57 CE.

08-01-2013, 11:21 AM	#44
Toto Contributor Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Los Angeles area Posts: 40,549	What do you think that you are proving by finding the word "undisputed" online? It has already been demonstrated that there are disputes.

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