spin

LXX

Deut 32:17

εθυσαν δαιμονιοις και ου θεω θεοις οις ουκ ηδεισαν καινοι προσφατοι ηκασιν ους ουκ ηδεισαν οι πατερες αυτων
They sacrificed to demons, which were no God, to gods they knew not, to new gods that recently appeared, which your fathers did not fear.

Ps 106:37

και εθυσαν τους υιους αυτων και τας θυγατερας αυτων τοις δαιμονιοις
They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons

Isa 13:21

και αναπαυσονται εκει θηρια και εμπλησθησονται αι οικιαι ηχου και αναπαυσονται εκει σειρηνες και δαιμονια εκει ορχησονται
But desert beasts will lie down there, and their houses will be full of howling creatures; there owls will dwell, and goat-demons will dance there.

ETA:

AJ 8.45 talks of god giving Solomon the ability to drive out demons (δαιμονων).

Sheshbazzar

Rome capitalized upon the liberties of Hellenism and on the Platonic and Stotic schools Hellenic culture and language, as well as the religious history of the Jews, subverting and perverting both to her own power mad ends.

The Democratic principals of Hellenic society were first used to consolidate the power and authority of the Roman Church, and once her propaganda control over the populace was achieved, The Imperial army was then employed to strip away every vestige of human liberty of thought and freedom of association.
All of the personal liberties of conscience so long enjoyed this advanced democratic civilization were stripped away, leaving every land and province under Roman domination subject to the the most horrid and murderous forms of religious coercion and mind control that the human mind could devise.

"Judge not according to the orthodox standard of a system, religious, philosophical, political, but according as things promote or fail to promote the delicacy, integrity and authority of Conscience." ....Acton

Under that strange new religion created by Constantine & Co. no man was any longer entitled to either speak or act according to the authority of personal conscience.
With the rise of The Catholic 'Creeds' it became; 'Repeat after us, Exactly according to the words of the confession that we require of you, NOW! or forfeit your life'.

If Acton had made that above statement in the presence of Catholic authorities during the period of their political power, he would have been forced to recant or his eyes and tongue would have been plucked out, and his head would have rolled as did those of thousands of others who thought they were entitled to any liberty of thought, or authority of their individual conscience regarding religion.

'WE will tell you what to think, and WE will tell you what you shall say;'

THIS. make no mistake about it, is what prevailed in Catholic controlled countries for over a thousand years, and was long continued by the Protestants. Heads still rolled for any who were so 'foolish' as to express un-catholic religious views.

And given political clout the fundamentalist leaders of either group would again today just as quickly and self-righteously again strip men of liberty of thought and impose their religious Creeds upon all men, __for christ's sake.

If there be an Elohim, what we most need 'saved' from, is the rise of religious fanatics and 'authorities' to positions of political power.

mountainman

Thanks spin.

I take it there is a difference between demon (δαιμονων) and daimon [δαίμων] in the Greek, but so far I have only looked at "daimon". I'd guess that the former is associated with "malefic" in contrast to the latter.

Are we looking at the version of the LXX by Origen the 3rd century Christian?

Do these "demons" in the (Christian) LXX match the sense of the Hebrew text?

You have cited this for some purpose which remains obscure to me atm.

Feel free to shed light on the subject.

mountainman

I notice that other NT translations such as the NLT produce a large number of instances where the word "demon" or "demons" is rendered into English.

For example Blueletter NLT

51 of these are in the NLT translation of the new testament.

Sheshbazzar

שדד 'shadad' or השודד 'ha'shodey'.

The interpretation is not Greek, but in the comprehension of the Hebrew.

mountainman

Totally agree with all this.

The oppressive cloud has lifted (over the centuries) somewhat but there are still remnants in the 21st century.




It's a bit of a racket eh?

This racket has caused a great deal of pain and suffering and promoted a great deal of ignorance.

But like you commented somewhere earlier .... "I come to bury Caesar BeJezus not to praise him"


Too true.

But also if there be an Elohim then he or she or it may be infused into each of our lives in a manner described by the gnostics and related to what they have termed a "Guardian spirit" or "daimon".

Do you know whether there is any equivalence of this concept in the philosophy/theology/metaphysics of the Hebrew sources?

spin

It would be good if you stopped trying to talk about things you have no knowledge of. You might learn about Greek noun forms. δαιμονων is the genitive plural of δαίμων, ie it's the same word, but adapted to the grammatical necessity of the context. So, no there is no difference between them. Try again.

Look here who's playing the dirty christian tricks card. What do you propose that the christians changed δαίμων from and why should Josephus use the same word in a similar manner?

The obscurity here is that your o.p. is full of shit. Does the light dawn on you?

Sheshbazzar

The concept of 'El Shaddai', if one is so persuaded, is very personal and very powerfully convicting.
-In other words if one believes their 'shadd' is present, it is to all intents actually -there- and is existent to the one that so believes.

Like 'daemon', one may have a 'shadd', an attendant ... -the English really does not have an exact word that can convey all of the senses of the Hebrew- but roughly speaking a present 'Almighty', an 'irresistible force', a destroyer and a terror.
With the terminal yod it becomes personal, like 'Elohi'> 'MY El' so 'Shaddi' > MY Almighty' -irresistible force, destroyer and terror.

Something fearful and to be feared by all, including the believer themselves; 'Thou shalt fear...' ( see Deut 6:13, Lev 25:43, and Prov 2:5)

The elohim (gods) of the nations are all likewise the 'shadd' ('daemons') powerful, and 'terrors' to the these peoples.

There are many shaddim (plural, powerful-terrible-destroying-ones) that are believed in, but only One Shadd whose name alone is יהוה

This was not at all clear to me until I had studied renditions in various Hebrew translations of the NT.


.

mountainman

No. Explain yourself FFS.

spin

Thread title:

Subversion of the Greek "daimon" [δαίμων] in the Gospels

Both the LXX and Josephus reflect the same usage of δαίμων as seen in the gospels. You then showed the fact that you knew nothing about Greek with your 'I take it there is a difference between demon (δαιμονων) and daimon [δαίμων] in the Greek, but so far I have only looked at "daimon".' and attempted to explain away the LXX by asserting Origen must have bowdlerized the text to use δαίμων with no evidence or other reason for doing so, other than because of your conclusion.

:tombstone:

It's dead, Jim.