aa5874

Your post does not prove that there were Christian books in Public libraries in the late 2nd century.

We have writings attributed in the 2nd century writers and none of them mentioned any Christian books in Public libraries.

Only the Septuagint is mentioned in a Library--Not the Gospels or the Epistles.

It is a complete fallacy that Christians condition became more favorable under Commodus who called himself a God.

Athenagoras of Athens was a contemporary of Commodus who called himself [Hercules] and PLEADED with him not to allow Christians to be persecuted and slaughtered.


ATHENAGORAS A PLEA FOR THE CHRISTIANS BY ATHENAGORAS THE ATHENIAN: PHILOSOPHER AND CHRISTIAN

stephan huller

You've brought up some wonderful points. After serious deliberation I thought about how best to respond to your assertions.

watersbeak

Having a little better understanding now, of Mr. Huller's cynicism, I recognize his insincerity, here. By contrast, I do find the posts, of aa5874, the last one as well, and mountainman's posts, too, very instructive, and thoughtful. This forum is a richer place, in my opinion, because of their participation in it.

Forgive my having intruded on this private forum here. Actually, quite appropriate, in my opinion, to write such awful comments, about "ignore", on a thread devoted to the contents of ancient libraries. Is there a fundamental difference between destruction of papyrus, because of what is written thereupon, versus refusal to read the comments of a fellow member of the forum, oh, sorry, this private forum. Henceforth, I shall attempt to limit my submissions, to reduce the pain associated with "good people" gazing upon the post of an uneducated paeon, like me.

I can imagine that. I simply can't imagine, by contrast, who would have coined the name placed as label on the box: "Christians", or, "Christiani".

"Christ", if the word had any meaning at all, in the second or third century (or fourth, why not?) Roman Empire, would not have led a viewer of the box to assume anything at all about Jesus of Galilee or Capernaum, or wherever he was thought to have been resident. In that case, the box would have been labeled "Galileani", or some such moniker. In that era, which was larger, the Roman church of "christians", or the group associated with Mani? Was there also a box in third century Roman Empire Libraries, for the works of Mani, whose influence traversed both Roman and Persian empires, extending all the way to China, in the third century?

I think that folks submitting ideas to this thread are too focused on the extant texts of today, and insufficiently considering the conditions back then. I suppose if Joe Blow walked up to the librarian, papyrus in hand, and said,
"please insert this into your box already labeled 'Christians'", he would be placed "on the ignore list", i.e. the list of persons eligible for lion feeding, and his papyrus thrown in the kindling box, to start a fire, in the winter. But, even more, how would Joe have known to ask the Librarian to place his submission in the box labeled Christian?

When did the term, "Christians", first become widely acknowledged? How do we know the date of origin of this particular event--upon which text do we rely, to make this determination? For a library to have a box labeled "Christians", or its Latin equivalent, the concept of a "christian", must have been understood, not only by the librarian, but also by the public searching the various boxes.

Sam

stephan huller

what do any of these questions have to do with whether or not Christian books were in ancient public libraries?

mountainman

Assuming Christian books were in ancient public libraries how would the general public know what the nomina sacra meant ?

This is a valid question for both the LXX and the NT and you didn't answer it.

stephan huller

But the septuagint or some Greek translation was clearly in public libraries. Apuleius tells us so

aa5874

The Septuagint was NOT composed by the Jesus cult of Christians and was already in an Alexandrian Library long before the story of the Myth character Jesus of Nazareth who was born of a Ghost and a Virgin and God Creator.

The Septuagint is claimed to have been written at least 150-200 years before the Jesus cult of Christians started.

In effect, the Septuagint is NOT really a Christian book but a copy of Jewish Scriptures in Greek in the time of Ptolemy.

Neither Ptolemy or the Jews were called Christians of the Jesus cult when the Septuagint was composed.

There were NO known Christians books at all in Public libraries based on all contemporary 2nd century Apologetic writers that mentioned Libraries in the time period.

stephan huller

Wow I didn't know that. Thanks again for pointing that out. Such a genius. But what this has to do with the issue at hand is beyond me. Pete brought up a point about the nomina sacra. He brought up the LXX. That was my response. Bye, bye.

stephan huller

In order to advance the conversation I have sent this email to a friend who happens to be an authority on this subject matter:

Roger Pearse

This is very interesting and new to me. Can I ask where Apuleius refers to the LXX or OT? Do you have a reference? Apology? Metamorphoses? I couldn't find anything to tell me on Google with a quick search.