Freethought & Rationalism Archive

aa5874 · 05-31-2013, 04:58 PM

See http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/schweitzer/

See http://www.earlychristianwritings.co...chapter20.html

Quote:

The Jesus of Nazareth who came forward publicly as the Messiah, who preached the ethic of the Kingdom of God, who founded the Kingdom of Heaven upon earth, and died to give His work its final consecration, never had any existence. He is a figure designed by rationalism, endowed with life by liberalism, and clothed by modern theology in an historical garb....................

He will be a Jesus, who was Messiah, and lived as such, either on the ground of a literary fiction of the earliest Evangelist, or on the ground of a purely eschatological Messianic conception....

No amount of verbal gymnastics can change what is written in the Quest For the Historical Jesus by Albert Schweitzer.

Jesus of Nazareth had no existence and was either a product of fiction or faith.

Jesus only has a Spiritual force--a force of Mythology.

Mythology is the foundation of the Jesus cult of Christians.

Quote:

Jesus means something to our world because a mighty spiritual force streams forth from Him and flows through our time also. This fact can neither be shaken nor confirmed by any historical discovery. It is the solid foundation of Christianity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCHindley

Iskander,

Taking a few moments from my union mandated 15 minute afternoon break, I have bolded the passage from Chapter XX of Schweitzer's Quest that answer the question of what he thinks about a historical Jesus.

When he acknowledges that critics were coming nearer to the historical Jesus than men had ever come before, this certainly suggests that he felt we were incrementally achieving the goal of knowing Jesus as he really was (this was before postmodernism questioned whether it was possible to really "know him as he actually was" as opposed to "how we think he was").

However, when it comes to making Jesus relevant to modern times, that is the Christ of faith as an object of religion, knowing what he actually was becomes a hinderance, because the reconstructed Jesus is incongruent with the Jesus of faith as depicted in the Gospels and Pauline epistles.

If anything, this suggests that the Christ of faith is not the real Jesus but an object of religious devotion. Schweitzer was at heart a liberal Christian, and liberal Christianity emphasizes the social aspects of the Gospel. Hence he ultimately decided to complete his life as the operator of a medical mission healing the sick. FWIW, Schweitzer had a heck of a time finding a missionary body that would fund his missionary ambitions. You will note that he was not known for preaching the born-again Gospel as a missionary.

DCH

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iskander

I have in front of me a book I have read, The quest for a historical Jesus, but I will use a copy online

In the concluding chapter XX, Results, he writes

Quote:

We are experiencing what Paul experienced. In the very moment when we were coming nearer to the historical Jesus than men had ever come before, and were already stretching out our hands to draw Him into our own time, we have been obliged to give up the attempt and acknowledge our failure in that paradoxical saying: "If we have known Christ after the flesh yet henceforth know we Him no more." And further we must be prepared to find that the historical knowledge of the personality and life of Jesus will not be a help, but perhaps even an offence to religion.

spin · 05-31-2013, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

No amount of verbal gymnastics can change what is written in the Quest For the Historical Jesus by Albert Schweitzer.

One needs to read him first though otherwise the statement is a best an unsupported assertion, as are ultimately the following (with a dose of selective internet reading):

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Jesus of Nazareth had no existence and was either a product of fiction or faith.

Jesus only has a Spiritual force--a force of Mythology.

Mythology is the foundation of the Jesus cult of Christians.

aa5874 · 05-31-2013, 07:47 PM

Mythology is the foundation of the Jesus cult of Christians. The writers of the Jesus cult vehemently argued for hundreds of years that their Jesus was born of a Ghost, and was God the Creator and he even Walked on the sea of Galilee then Transfigured.

Albert Schweitzer is right. Jesus of Nazareth is either of fiction or of faith.

John 6:19 KJV

Quote:

So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid .

Jesus of Nazareth walked THREE MILES on the sea of Galilee in the Canon.

Schweitzer is perfectly right. Jesus of Nazareth is fiction or faith.

Now, examine gJohn 1 for more fiction or faith.

[U]John 1[u]

Quote:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made ..........14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.....

Jesus of Nazareth had no real existence. Jesus was Spiritual force- the Logos--fiction or faith.

Examine gMatthew for the conception of Jesus--fiction or faith.

Matthew 1:18 CEB

Quote:

This is how the birth of Jesus Christ took place. When Mary his mother was engaged to Joseph, before they were married, she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

Schweitzer is absolutely right. Jesus of Nazareth is either fiction or faith.

Examine gMark 9 for a Jesus of Fiction or faith.

Mark 9:2 KJV

Quote:

And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them

spin · 05-31-2013, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Mythology is the foundation of the Jesus cult of Christians.

The umpteenth assertion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

The writers of the Jesus cult vehemently argued for hundreds of years that their Jesus was born of a Ghost, and was God the Creator and he even Walked on the sea of Galilee then Transfigured.

What exactly do you mean by "ghost"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

Albert Schweitzer is right. Jesus of Nazareth is either of fiction or of faith.

Where exactly does Schweitzer say that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by aa5874

John 6:19 KJV

Quote:

So when they had rowed about five and twenty or thirty furlongs, they see Jesus walking on the sea, and drawing nigh unto the ship: and they were afraid .

Jesus of Nazareth walked THREE MILES on the sea of Galilee in the Canon.

Schweitzer is perfectly right. Jesus of Nazareth is fiction or faith.

Now, examine gJohn 1 for more fiction or faith.

[U]John 1[u]

Quote:

1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.2 The same was in the beginning with God.3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made ..........14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.....

Jesus of Nazareth had no real existence. Jesus was Spiritual force- the Logos--fiction or faith.

Examine gMatthew for the conception of Jesus--fiction or faith.

Matthew 1:18 CEB

Quote:

This is how the birth of Jesus Christ took place. When Mary his mother was engaged to Joseph, before they were married, she became pregnant by the Holy Spirit.

Schweitzer is absolutely right. Jesus of Nazareth is either fiction or faith.

Examine gMark 9 for a Jesus of Fiction or faith.

Mark 9:2 KJV

Quote:

And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them

You neither establish fiction nor do you show why Jesus necessarily didn't exist in this screed. Exaggerated reports and apocryphal stories don't indicate that the subject of these did not exist or that the literature as a whole was fiction.

You do love your assertions.

aa5874 · 05-31-2013, 08:50 PM

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