DCHindley

The Diatessaron of Tatian has always been a hard nut to crack. What survives to this day under that name is an Arabic and a medieval Dutch translation, and some citations from later authors (such as Victor of Capua) and fragments such as the Dura leaf.

However, if you have read the introductory notes to Mr. Hope Hogg's translation of the Arabic Diatessaron, you'll already be aware that tracing its development and even establishing its original language has proved to be exceptionally difficult, because sources seem to differ between themselves so dramatically.

As critics had argued for quite a while about whether the Diatessaron was composed in Greek or Syriac (Syrian Aramaic) it is no wonder that the 1933 discovery of a Greek fragment that could be dated to the sack of Dura in 256 CE (and hence "early") would get special attention.

Below is the table of the events and people present at Jesus' crucifixion as found in the Dura fragment and in several other Diatessaronic witnesses:

D.Pg. 24, Greek	Arabic translated to Latin	Google translated to English	Victor of Capua Latin	Google translated to English	Liège MS
	Stabant autem	standing			Ende alie deghene die sine vrint hadden
	omnes noti Iesu a longe1	acquaintances of Jesus from a distance	... a longe	... from a distance	ghewest end die sine conde hadden ghehat
	et mulieres	and women	et mulieres multae	and many women	ende viele vrowen
	quae venerant cum eo	which come with him	quae simul cum eo ascenderant	which came up with him	die met hem waren comen uten lande
	a Galilaea	Galilee	a Galilaea Hierosolymis	from Galilee, Jerusalem	van Galileen tote Jherusalem
					stonden van verren
					ende sagen toe
	quae sequebantur eum et	which followed him and
	ministrabant ei	served him
	quarum una erat Maria Magdalene	one of which was Mary Magdalene	Inter quas erat Maria Magdalene	Among them were Mary Magdalene	Onder die so stont oc Maria Magdalene
	et Maria mater Jacobi minoris et lusa	and Mary, the mother of James the less and Iusa	et Maria Jacobi minoris et Joseph mater	and Mary the mother of James the less and of Joses	ende Maria des mynders Yacobs moeder ende Josephs
………………… Ζεβεδαίου	et mater filiorum Zebedaei	and the mother of Zebedee
και Σαλώμη	et Salome	and Salome	et Salome	and Salome	ende Salome
			mater filiorum Zebedaei	mother of Zebedee	ende de moeder van Zebedeuss kindren
καὶ αἱ γυναῖκες των	et aliae multae	and many others
συνακολουθησαντων αυτω απο της Γαλιλαιας	quae cum eo ascenderant Ierosolymam	which came up with him
			et cum esset in Galilaea sequebantur eum	when he was in Galilee, followed him, and	dese plagen hem te volghene alse hi was int lant van Galileen end hem te dinne.
ορωσαι τον σταυρωθεντα.	haec videntes.	these things.	haec videntes.	these things.
			+Jn xix 31-37, beginning: Judaei	+ Jn xix 31-37, beginning: Jews	+Jn xix 31-37, beginning: Doe quamen die Yoeden want het op den vridach was vor den paschen, …….
Ην δe η ημερα παρασκευη· σαββατον επεφωσκεν.			ergo quoniam Parasceve erat, ....	So that was the preparation, ....
Οφιας δε γενομενης επι τη παρασκευή	Et cum adventisset vespera parasceve	And with the preparation of the evening adventisset	Cum sero autem factum esset	When evening came,	Alst den avonde naekde
ο εστιν προσαββατον	ob ingressum sabbati	entry for Saturday
προσηλθεν άνθρωπος	venit vir	the man	venit quidam homo	came a man	so quam en rike man
	nomine Ioseph	named Joseph
βουλευτής υπάρχων	dives et decurio	rich and counselor	dives nobilis decurio	rich noble counselor	ende en edel die tine riddren hadde onder hem
απο Έρινμαθαιας πολεως της Ιουδαιας	ab Arimathaea civitate Iudaeae	Jewish town of Arimathea	ab Arimathia civitate Iudae	Arimathea, a city of Judah	die was van eere stat uten yodschen lande dit hit Armatia
ονομα Ιοσηφ			nomine Ioseph	named Joseph	ende die man was genamt Joseph (s)
aγaθos δίκαιος	qui erat vir bonus (et) rectus	who was a good man (and) a right angle	vir bonus et justus	a good and just	ende en goet man was ende en gherecht
ων μαθητης του Ιησού	ac discipulus Iesu	and a disciple of Jesus			ende Jhesus yongre was
κατακεκρυμμενος δε	qui occultabat se	who hid herself	qui et ipse occultus	and that he concealed	al verholenles
			discipulus erat Ihesu	was a disciple of Jesus
δια τον φοβον των Ιουδαίων	timens a Iudaeis	for fear of the Jews	propter metum Iudaeorum	for fear of the Jews	om de vreese van den Yoeden
	non consenserat autem	not consented to the
	consilio et actibus perditorum	desperate plan of action
και αυτός προσεδεχετο την βασιλείαν του θεου.	et exspectabat regnum Dei	and waited for the kingdom of God	qui exspectabat et ipse regnum Dei	who himself looked for the kingdom of God	ende hakende was na dat rike Gods
Ουτος ουκ ην συνκατατιθεμενος			Hic non consenserat	Not consented	noch en consenteerde nit mettin Yoeden
τη βουλή.......			concilio et actibus eorum	Council and their actions	met rade noch met dade

Are you interested in this because of its possible relationship to the supposed development of the Christian gospels?

DCH

stephan huller

Thanks DCH.

avi

Yup, thanks David, well written, as always.

Pre-Darwinian theories of evolution:

Reading the amateurish writings of fellow forum members about the scraps of papyrus "found" at Dura Europos, reminds me of the conviction church goers had, in the 17th century, to explain Evolution.

Dura Europos was NOT UNDISTURBED for 1600 years as claimed by Clark Hopkins.

It is inconceivable that the group of heroic Roman Legionaires, who died defending this furthest Roman outpost from "civilization", would have been ignored by their grandchildren, passing only a couple of kilometers to the east, en route to "punish" the very same enemy who had vanquished their grandfathers. It is unimaginable that Julian's soldiers, raised for four decades in the belief that Christianity was the official state religion, would have NOT stopped, to explore the fallen outpost. Julian's soldiers painted the walls of the house near the Jewish Synagogue. They are the ones who dropped the Diatessaron fragment, if that is what it is.

Please stop acting as though Dura Europos had been buried to the hubcaps by a single century of blowing sand. Ten, or fifteen centuries, ok, yes, that's enough sand to bury the city. One century, no way, Jose.

What do folks here imagine happened, after the city fell to the invading Mesopotamians? Does one suppose they all just left everything, undisturbed, and went home to Sunday brunch at the cafe?

The soldiers may have fought to the death, but the civilians would have been enslaved, and compelled, on pain of death of their loved ones, to reveal where the loot had been buried. The whole city would have been excavated, searching for the gold, jewels, and silks, that the townsmen had buried, with a view of retrieval AFTER the Babylonians had been repulsed.

The naked city, completely exposed, would have only been abandoned after a thorough looting, which would have demanded excavation of the defenses erected by the soldiers. Julian's forces would have found a wind swept city, filled with a foot of sand and debris, not 12 feet of sand and debris, as described by the first French excavators, in the 1920's.

It is absurd, and childish, to imagine that any document found in Dura Europos had been placed there in the mid second century, but not in the mid third century, when Julian's army passed by. Anyone who doubts this, is welcome to search the internet for both British, Turkish, and USA explorations to reveal battlefield remnants from the first world war, or the Civil War in USA. Even today, trips to Normandy, to pay homage to those who perished, represent regular attractions, filled with tourists from countries far and wide. Paying respect to fallen battlefield heroes is not a practice limited to Roman Legionaires, but there can be little doubt, that they engaged in the practice of honoring fallen comrades. Why else, would Julian have halted his rush to Babylon? How did waiting a week benefit his troops? It simply gave the enemy an extra week to prepare defenses. NO. Julian himself, stopped the procession towards the Babylonian capital, to honor his predecessor, a teenager who died in battle fighting the same enemy.

aa5874

All people from West Africa do not have the same accent.

stephan huller

slaves developed their distinctive accents from where they were enslaved not where they were from

aa5874

Again, your statement is highly illogical. People have distinctive accents before they are enslaved.

stephan huller

But the slaveowners were indiscriminate about the cultural purity of their slave population

Toto

What a dramatic imagination you have. Have you considered writing historical fiction? (Not meant to be an insult - there are so few firm facts, you might as well explore them in a fictional context.)

Only 2 years ago, in this archived thread, you were sure that radical Muslim Palestinians with a grudge against the Jewish settlers who would take over their land in a few decades had been hired to plant the evidence in Dura.

Here's the archived thread on Dura Europos:

mountainman

Thanks DCH.

Some questions:


Where is the 3rd line about going "to see the crucified"?

Also I have noted in the 1st column above (in red) just *some* of the emendations that do not exist in the evidence.

1) Zebedee .... the name of "Zebedee" does not appear.... What appears is [Zebed]ee ..... [Ζεβεδ]αι̣ο̣υ
2) Jesus (nomina sacra form)
3) Jews
4) Kingdom


There are others. For example:

5) The name of the city of "Judea" does not appear .... what appears is [Jude]a .... [Ιουδαι]ας


FYI here is what I have as these emendations:
(Cant get the table to work)

.

[Ζεβεδ]αι̣ο̣υ και Σαλωμη κ[α]ι̣ α̣ι γ̣υ̣ν̣αικες ========[Zebed]ee and Salome and the wives

[των συ]ν̣ακολουθησανων α̣[υτ]ω υ απο της ======== [of those who] had followed him from

[Γαλιλαι]α̣ς ορωσαι τον στ[αυρωθεντ]α. υυυ ην δε ======== [Galile]e to see the crucified.

[η ημερ]α Παρασκευη. υ Σαββατον επεφω- ======== [the da]y was Preparation: the Sabbath was daw-

[σκεν. ο]ψ̣ιας δε γενομενης επι τ̣[η Π]α̣ρ[α]σ- ======== [ning]. And when it was evening, on the Prep-

[κευη], υ ο εστιν Προσαββατον, πρ̣ο̣σ- ======== [aration], that is, the day before the Sabbath,

[ηλθην] ανθρωπος βουλευτη̣[ς υ]π̣α̣ρ- ======== [there came] up a man, [be]ing a member of the council,

[χων α]π̣ο Ερινμαθαια[ς] π[ο]λ̣ε̣ω̣ς της ======== from Arimathea, a c[i]ty of

[Ιουδαι]ας, ονομα Ιω[σεφ], α[γ]αθος̣ δι- ======== [Jude]a, by name Jo[seph], g[o]od and ri-

[καιος], ων μαθητης τ[ο]υ̣ Ιη(σου), κ̣ε- υυυυ ======== [ghteous], being a disciple of Jesus,

[κρυμ]μενος δε δια τ̣ο̣ν̣ φ̣ο̣βον των ======== se[cret]ly, for fear of the

[Ιουδαιω]ν, και αυτος προσεδεχτο ======== [Jew]s. And he was looking for

[την] υ β̣[ασιλειαν] του̣ Θ(εο)υ ο̣υτος ουκ ======== [the] k[ingdom] of God. This man [had] not

[ην συνκατατ] ιθεμ̣εν̣[ο]ς̣ τη β̣[ουλη] ======== [con]sented to [their] p[urpose]...

mountainman

One does not need any dramatic imagination to place Emperor Julian and the entire Roman army (containing many 4th century Christians) in and around the city of Dura Europos in early April of the year 363 CE. See the sources: Ammianus (23.5.1-15) and Zosimus (3.14.2)