maryhelena

What started the story that led to Christianity? An interpretation, a prophetic interpretation of Jewish history. Jewish history plus a prophetic interpretation on that history led to the creation of the gospel JC story.

Someone created a pseudo historical story, a prophetic story.

Why did the story start a religion? Because it was based upon a religion. It was an offshoot from a religion. A religion with a long history of interpreting history as salvation history. The OT god saves his people from Egypt and Babylon...in the NT god offers salvation to all people. National salvation, group salvation, needed to move forward to incorporate individual salvation, personal salvation. A theological democracy where individual salvation, individual growth or development, was a necessary value within a rational society. People are to be valued for their humanity not their ethnicity.

maryhelena

"...evidence we have that Earl has interpreted....."

Indeed, there is evidence that Earl has proposed a "cosmic sacrifice in the heavens". However, there is no evidence for such a "cosmic sacrifice" in a fleshly sub lunar. Earl is speculating. Earl is interpreting the Pauline writing.

Indeed, "..the social process of working out what the vision and the social structures that grew up around it meant would go on until the present."

Why? Because interpretations carry no guarantee. All they do is tickle the fancy of those who propose them. Earl has not, and cannot, win a NT interpretation Lottery. To assume that early christian origins was based upon a "cosmic sacrifice" is to shut the door to ever understanding, or reaching, ground zero for early christian origins. A pie in the sky scenario for early christian origins will be thrown out of court by any biblical historian worth of that name.

Chili

Christianity is about renewal of life that is native to humans as outsider to their own self. Renewal of life is native to all sentient beings for whom also metamorphosis is native to them that we call natural as seen from the outside, while from the inside 'the being' knows exactly how it is done.

Banned from Eden is why humans are sentient as outsider to their own self, which is a good thing, of course it is, so we can also be rational agents to gather knowledge that is stored and retained in our right brain, or TOL, there called woman as womb of man, and not just a female, but 'woman' in us, next to which we as human are outsider to it, that so now is conditional only.

IOW, there is no material cause with form for the human condition as created, and is not formed in Gen. 3 where 'like god' is added to give form to 'man' as co-creator with [first cause] God so that Lord God as formed (there called Second Cause in Gen. 2) can be renewed each generation anew. So now, 'like god' is partner with 'God' in the creation process and only needs 'realization' to be fully God and for this a re-emergence is needed to fully understand who he really is . . . wherein so temporal is needed to enter eternity by way of re-emerge to be the fruit of his own womb, this time, and not some female out there (with all respect to ladies and females alike).

Then take a close look at Matthew where Joseph was a dreamer by night to show desire inside TOK (left brain) to be counted among the righteous, and compare this with Luke where it was an innate fruition (right brain) that was brought on by tradition based on determinate forces that we call nature in animals who know when it is time to spin their own coccoon.


Notice that Gabriel is the functional agent here as first cause from God, that is prior to religion itself, and so is born out of tradition (that is by way of tradition only to subdue the TOK as reason itself), and hence is anti-dreamer as first cause by nature, let's say, to keep human desire away from this event (hence thief in the night and phrases like that say the same thing).

So in answer to the question: Where did the story come from? It comes from within, and never forget that Jews were not familiar with that, for whom the Torah of Tradition bore the fruit against the pulpit event as negative stand for them in this real life event.

Where did Christianity come from? Christianity is just a fiery movement by self proclaimed 'look-likes' who preach Jesus instead of Christ, but it must also be true that Christ must be real before the anti-christ can be conceived to exist.

A good allegory here is to say that while Paul was knocked off the high horse he was riding when he saw the light as [anti-pulpit] persecutor himself, the self proclaimed Christians became like 'the whole cavalry' on the run empowered to spread [pulpit] Jesus allover the land and so persecute Christ.

dog-on

I would imagine that the translation of the Hebrew religious texts into Greek was probably the most significant originating factor.

EarlDoherty

Don't let "aa" or Aristides fool you, Ted. The single 'gospel' passage in that apology is almost certainly a later insertion. I posted here my full Appendix from Jesus: Neither God Nor Man on that subject a couple of months ago Edit

The question that really needs to be examined has a different nuance than what you present, Ted. We need to ask to what extent Christianity actually arose among Jews, and what was the form of it in its initial stage. There is a huge difference between the idea that Jews in Jerusalem responded to a preaching, miracle-working sage and came to take his disciples' word for it that he had walked out of his grave and was consequently the redeemer of the world (all of which enjoys no evidence in the entire epistolary record, in contrast to the 2nd century Acts) and the idea that some Jews in Hellenistic influenced milieus, with many gentiles taking part as well, were persuaded that God had a Son along Logos lines and that scripture revealed activities of that Son in the heavenly realm.

Your "among Jews" really needs to be defined and analyzed first. (My apologies if that has been done in subsequent postings in this thread.)

Earl Doherty

aa5874

Why don't you just go and read Mark first before you post such absurdities?

At the very begining of gMark the author made references to the Words of the Lord in the books of the Prophets.

Mark 1:2 KJV Now examine the Words of the Lord in the book of the Prophet called Malachi.

Malachi 3:1 KJV Again, please first read gMark because you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

We know what started the Jesus story--it was the Fall of the Temple, the desolation of Jerusalem and the Words of the Lords in the books of the Prophets.

outhouse

No where in OT scripture is a Galilean traveling teacher and healer who went around and healed for free hoping to get a chance to pass on his message around the dinner table.

No where was a man crucified by real historical characters on earth like Pilate


Not only that most of the OT mythology was written and created about past events hundred and hundreds of years in the past, not in living memory.

maryhelena

And just where in my post did I say any such thing???

You've lost me with this statement....

I don't think you have read what I wrote at all.....

outhouse

Here



That is not the core of the story, that was not how. It was a writing style used by the later authors.

But they didnt start Christianity. It had been going for some time before it was written down.


How about witnesses to a murdered man at Passover that was martyred?

maryhelena

Nonsense. My statement does not relate to your quote - which you have cut out of this post......:huh:

Writing style? Deal with the content of the story not the style of it's composition!
Jewish history preceded the written gospel pseudo-historical story. Christianity springs from the gospel story. The debate is not over the gospel story - it's a story. The debate is over what caused that story to be created. What inspired that story? What relevance does the story have to the historical time frame in which that story is set down?

How about getting real and dealing with Jewish history instead of that history's interpretation, it's reflection, it's prophetic interpretation, within that gospel story?