Sheshbazzar

Not your thing to hear what they have to say either I take it.

To each his own, no skin off of my back.

mountainman

Three cheers for the internet.

What would people have been doing 20 years ago?

It would have been an almost impossible task to read Vaticanus, the Nag Hammadi library and even Eusebius.

Visiting libraries around the planet (assuming you get access)?





εὐδαιμονία | eudaimonia

Sheshbazzar

I've been at this a long time, 40 years ago used to sit up studying till dawn, 4 to 8 Bibles open for textual comparisons, a couple of Concordances, and a stack of Encyclopedias.
Most of my Bibles and reference books have long since been packed away, but here it is 4:20 A.M, and here I am still punishing myself for this foolishness. :Cheeky:

Chili

Don't worry, I read what you write and am not here because I have nothing better to do. And notice that I never visit the coffee-shop either and find this particular board the most interesting of all. Thanks to you all.

My Catechism ended at grade 6. Already then with a mind of my own I am supposed to have told the teacher that if Christ was in the wafer I would poop him out too.

Chili

Each to his own but I like the poetic line of the NAB that always prompts a question for me to sort out in my sleep, where I actually 'flip pages' to make sense of it all. I may have told you this before and am not sure if I did.

aa5874

Again, your statement is of little value because even if you believe Justin made false statements about Simon Magus those claims by Justin do NOT at all help to show that the Jesus cult existed in the time of Simon Magus or Claudius.

Justin claimed Simon Magus--NOT Jesus-- was regarded as the FIRST GOD by almost all the Samiritans and some other nations.

In fact, Justin Martyr SUPPORTS the argument that the Jesus character was unknown as a God or was worshiped by Samaritans in the time of Claudius and was unknown in Rome. It was Simon Magus--the First God.

1. Simon Magus was the FIRST GOD--NOT Jesus.

2. Simon Magus did Mighty Acts of Magic--Not Jesus

3. The disciples of Simon Magus claimed they would NEVER die--Not Jesus.

4. Simon Magus was worshiped as the First God by the Samaritans and other Nations--NOT Jesus.

5. Simon Magus was Honored in ROME--Not Jesus.


The Jesus story may have been fabricated based on Simon Magus.

Thanks to Justin Martyr.

Examine Justin's First Apology What stooge would have admitted that Simon Magus--NOT Jesus--was the FIRST GOD, Did Mighty Acts, and was worshiped by almost ALL the Samaritans as God, was Honored in ROME and that his disciples claimed they would never die?

Justin Martyr has EXPOSED the Fraud called Jesus of Nazareth.

Simon Magus was known as the one who did MIGHTY ACTS and was worshiped as the FIRST GOD and EVEN in ROME.

Thanks to Justin Martyr. We know exactly how the Jesus story was FABRICATED.

Sheshbazzar

Amazing. I'm sure you are going to impress the academic world with that insight.

gurugeorge

Actually it's not a bad insight, except it probably relates more to the Paul=Simon Magus idea (in which case JM did mention Paul, but under the name he knew him as ).

The whole thing is unbelievably murky and undoubtedly the result of layered shenanigans.

Incidentally, aa's methodology is clear. He's correlating what's actually said in the texts as representing extent beliefs and coming out with a fairly coherent story, and is able to justify his position based on that.

The trouble is, a) he's not studying the text in their original languages and b) he's not taking into account the fact that even a coherent story may be a lie, or simply not true (for all that it's coherent) because in reality there were other factors involved that we don't know about.

a) is the reason why I prefer to follow orthodox scholarship to some degree - those people do know the original languages, and I do not; and b) is the reason I'm not convinced by the mere internal coherence of aa's construction.

Chili

Simon was doubt as the flip side of Peter in faith and so is honored in Rome where victory is home, and if Jesus is the mean but not the end he should not be honored in Rome.

Just watch Simon help Jesus carry his cross in Matthew, to say that both faith and doubt are alive and well in this execution event, while in Luke Jesus carried the cross and Simon trailed him carrying a crossbeam to say "no more doubt" that equals no more faith as the final enemy to overcome.

It so is that crucifixion is a pleasure to Luke instead of a pain still being forked inside the split between pleasure and pain there called faith and doubt. This concept is made known in "My God, my God why did you do this to me" instead of "it is finished" in opposite to that.

Not sure if I should add this here but I see a sign of 'sage impotence' in Luke with the women beating their chest lamenting over him as if he is also finished with them = "no marriage in heaven" to say much the same.

To keep in mind here is that if "Knowledge Frees" doubt should not help carry the cross.

So I am not sure if you are picking a loser again, but to say that Simon Magus was God points at savers-sinners again for whom doubt remains alive in the paradox that they maintain.

Oh, and I can see that Simon Magus was alive and well in Samaria and all over hell as that is what a wild-fire is like, here catch-as-catch-can Billy Graham style again (and I have nothing against Billy but just use him to show Simon Magus in function like him).

And yes, those were the early Christian then and it is also true that "they perform great prodigies and speak like a dragon." Just read Rev.13:11-17 where [they are] placed opposite to Jesus of Nazareth who bore the wounds to show for his cause and came from the [celestial] waters that was called Nazareth there.

Note here that the second beast came from the [old] earth as did Simon Magus there from the field to say once again that he was earthly at best with no Nazareth about him that so confirmed James as the brother Jesus was a deserted Egyptian at best.

Chili

Nothing has changed and Jesus still is not God and must die in us so we can be God, and never die so that the testament will be ours as testator alive. This would be the first death here, mind you, who's victor is the unified disciple as raised that so is a post last-supper event.

The problem I have here is that a tragedy cannot be conceived to exist before the comedy is known, and somewhere behind all these rants of Justin the truth must be concealed for him to write something like that.

This is why hold that when heaven became known to Rome hell came crashing down with it from where now only the tragedy can be seen as presented by him.

And don't ever think that Simon Magus is celebrated in Rome as God but instead as the enemy to overcome.