Freethought & Rationalism Archive

stephan huller · 05-28-2013, 11:31 PM

This is what appears on page 71 of Eric Osborn's Clement of Alexandria:

Quote:

This work (the Hypotyposeis) discusses passages of scripture, with interpretation and added detail. The story of Jesus’ healing of the leper is expanded. The priests had saidthat no one would heal this leper except the Christ, if he should come.Therefore Jesus, when he had healed the leper, sent him to give testimony to the priests that ‘Christ has come, believe in him’ (frag. 12).

There is no footnote here and no reference to the original Greek of the passage. I am trying to track down where this reference originally appeared.

stephan huller · 05-28-2013, 11:34 PM

Here is what Mark Goodacre references in his textexcavation.com site:

Quote:

In his "Hypotyposeis" (6.12, 12), written around 203 to 210, Clement quotes from an early reading related to D Luke 5.14: apelqe kai deixon seauton toiV iereusin eiV marturion. Clement's quotation is much shorter and he has "the priests" instead of the problematic singular tw ierei in canonical Mark and Luke. The unique ending of D Lk 5:14 eiV marturion hn umein touto is similar to what Epiphanius reports for Marcion ina h marturion touto umein and may be a very old reading.

This still doesn't tell me where this is from.

* mod note: http://www.textexcavation.com/docume...hhealleper.htm

stephan huller · 05-29-2013, 12:34 PM

Was it from D'Antraigues visit to Macarius?

andrewcriddle · 05-29-2013, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Here is what Mark Goodacre references in his textexcavation.com site:

Quote:

In his "Hypotyposeis" (6.12, 12), written around 203 to 210, Clement quotes from an early reading related to D Luke 5.14: apelqe kai deixon seauton toiV iereusin eiV marturion. Clement's quotation is much shorter and he has "the priests" instead of the problematic singular tw ierei in canonical Mark and Luke. The unique ending of D Lk 5:14 eiV marturion hn umein touto is similar to what Epiphanius reports for Marcion ina h marturion touto umein and may be a very old reading.

This still doesn't tell me where this is from.

Hi Stephan

(I think you mean Ben Smith not Mark Goodacre.)

According to Stahlin the passage is from vatic. Graec. 354 See clemensalexandrinus

Andrew Criddle

stephan huller · 05-29-2013, 01:16 PM

You are the greatest!

Jeffrey Gibson · 05-29-2013, 01:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by andrewcriddle

Quote:

Originally Posted by stephan huller

Here is what Mark Goodacre references in his textexcavation.com site:

Quote:

In his "Hypotyposeis" (6.12, 12), written around 203 to 210, Clement quotes from an early reading related to D Luke 5.14: apelqe kai deixon seauton toiV iereusin eiV marturion. Clement's quotation is much shorter and he has "the priests" instead of the problematic singular tw ierei in canonical Mark and Luke. The unique ending of D Lk 5:14 eiV marturion hn umein touto is similar to what Epiphanius reports for Marcion ina h marturion touto umein and may be a very old reading.

This still doesn't tell me where this is from.

Hi Stephan

(I think you mean Ben Smith not Mark Goodacre.)

According to Stahlin the passage is from vatic. Graec. 354 See clemensalexandrinus

Andrew Criddle

Here's the text:

Quote:

Fragment 12, line 1

Vatic. graec. 354 (= Evangeliencodex S, bei von Soden ε 89)

nach Mercati, Studi e Testi 12 (1904) S. 3.

Κλήμεντος ἐκ τῆς ϛʹ τῶν Ὑποτυπώσεων· Καὶ τὸν λεπρὸν ἐθεράπευσεν καὶ εἶπεν· «δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τοῖς ἱερεῦσιν εἰς μαρτύριον» διὰ
12.5
τοιαύτην παράδοσιν. ἔθος εἶχον οἱ ἱερεῖς δυνάμει θεοῦ λεπροὺς ἰᾶσθαι ἡμέραις τακταῖς. τοῦτον οὖν τὸν λεπρὸν πολλῷ χρόνῳ μὴ δυνηθέντες ἰάσασθαι ἔλεγον·
«τοῦτον οὐδεὶς ἰάσεται ἢ μόνος ὁ Χριστός, ἐὰν ἔλθῃ.» πολλὰ τοίνυν δεηθέντος τοῦ λεπροῦ ὁ σωτὴρ ἐπισπλαγ-
χνισθείς, ἰασάμενος αὐτόν, διὰ τοῦτο εἶπεν· «ἄπελθε καὶ δεῖξον σεαυ-
12.10
τὸν τοῖς ἱερεῦσιν εἰς μαρτύριον, ὅτι, εἰ τεθεράπευται οὗτος, ἐφ' οὗ εἰρήκατε <οὐδεὶς ἀλλ' ἢ ὁ Χριστὸς μόνος αὐτὸν ἰάσεται>, ἦλθεν ὁ Χριστός, καὶ πιστεύσατε αὐτῷ.»

Jeffrey

stephan huller · 05-29-2013, 01:22 PM

You are wonderful too! This is what makes this forum so absolutely wonderful and the price of admission is admitting one's inferiority. Thank you, thank you. A fascinating reference, don't you think?

Jeffrey Gibson · 05-29-2013, 01:44 PM

Epiphanius Scr. Eccl., Panarion (= Adversus haereses) (2021: 002)
“Epiphanius, Bände 1–3: Ancoratus und Panarion”, Ed. Holl, K.
Leipzig: Hinrichs, 1:1915; 2:1922; 3:1933; Die griechischen christlichen Schriftsteller 25, 31, 37.
Volume 2, page 108, line 7

Ἀπελθὼν δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τῷ ἱερεῖ καὶ προσένεγκε περὶ τοῦ
καθαρισμοῦ σου, καθὼς προσέταξε Μωυσῆς»· «ἵνα ᾖ μαρτύριον τοῦτο
ὑμῖν» ἀνθ' οὗ εἶπεν ὁ σωτήρ «εἰς μαρτύριον αὐτοῖς».

Epiphanius Scr. Eccl., Panarion (= Adversus haereses)
Volume 2, page 125, line 4

Ἀπελθὼν δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τῷ ἱερεῖ καὶ προσένεγκε περὶ τοῦ
καθαρισμοῦ σου, καθὼς προσέταξε Μωυσῆς»· «ἵνα ᾖ μαρτύριον
τοῦτο ὑμῖν» ἀνθ' οὗ εἶπεν ὁ σωτήρ «εἰς μαρτύριον αὐτοῖς».

stephan huller · 05-29-2013, 02:06 PM

Exactement monsieur.

stephan huller · 05-29-2013, 02:13 PM

It's also where Epiphanius begins his list of textual variants which is unusual given that Tertullian (who likely used the same source) presents earlier variants.

Quote:

'Go show thyself unto the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded—that this may be a testimony unto you,' instead of the Savior's 'for a testimony unto them.'

Quote:

Scholion 1, from Marcion's Own Version of the Gospel 'Go, show thyself unto the priest, and offer for thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded—that this may be a testimony unto you' instead of the Saviour's 'for a testimony unto them.'

(a) Elenchus 1. How could the Lord whose teachings—as you say—were always against the Law, say to the persons he had healed, I mean to the leper, 'Go, show thyself unto the priest?' Since he says, 'to the priest,' he does not reject the priesthood of the Law.
(b) 'And offer for thy cleansing.' Even if you excise 'the gift,' it will be evident, from the word, 'offer,' that he is speaking of a gift.
(c) 'For thy cleansing, according as Moses commanded.' If he advises obedience to Moses' commandment, he is not rejecting or insulting the God of the Law, but acknowledging that both he and God, his Father, have given the Law to Moses.
(d) You have twisted the wording, Marcion, by saying 'testimony unto you' instead of 'testimony unto them.' In this too you have plainly lied against your own head. If he were saying, 'testimony unto you,' he would be calling himself to witness that 'I came not to destroy the Law or the prophets, but to fulfil.'

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05-29-2013, 12:34 PM	#3
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Was it from D'Antraigues visit to Macarius?

05-29-2013, 01:16 PM	#5
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	You are the greatest!

05-29-2013, 01:22 PM	#7
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	You are wonderful too! This is what makes this forum so absolutely wonderful and the price of admission is admitting one's inferiority. Thank you, thank you. A fascinating reference, don't you think?

05-29-2013, 01:44 PM	#8
Jeffrey Gibson Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 3,058	Epiphanius Scr. Eccl., Panarion (= Adversus haereses) (2021: 002) “Epiphanius, Bände 1–3: Ancoratus und Panarion”, Ed. Holl, K. Leipzig: Hinrichs, 1:1915; 2:1922; 3:1933; Die griechischen christlichen Schriftsteller 25, 31, 37. Volume 2, page 108, line 7 Ἀπελθὼν δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τῷ ἱερεῖ καὶ προσένεγκε περὶ τοῦ καθαρισμοῦ σου, καθὼς προσέταξε Μωυσῆς»· «ἵνα ᾖ μαρτύριον τοῦτο ὑμῖν» ἀνθ' οὗ εἶπεν ὁ σωτήρ «εἰς μαρτύριον αὐτοῖς». Epiphanius Scr. Eccl., Panarion (= Adversus haereses) Volume 2, page 125, line 4 Ἀπελθὼν δεῖξον σεαυτὸν τῷ ἱερεῖ καὶ προσένεγκε περὶ τοῦ καθαρισμοῦ σου, καθὼς προσέταξε Μωυσῆς»· «ἵνα ᾖ μαρτύριον τοῦτο ὑμῖν» ἀνθ' οὗ εἶπεν ὁ σωτήρ «εἰς μαρτύριον αὐτοῖς».

05-29-2013, 02:06 PM	#9
stephan huller Veteran Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: seattle, wa Posts: 9,337	Exactement monsieur.

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