Davka

Of course not. If you took the time to study a subject, you would be a scholar. If you then wrote a book about the subject, you would be a published scholar.

Academia is not the only venue for scholarship.

Grog

I think the idea is that exiles from Akhenaten's reign fled into the desert where the monotheistic religion merged with Canaanite tribal religions. At least that was what I remember reading in Freud's Moses and Monotheism. Freud was refuted on the grounds that Akhenaten's reign did not coincide with the Exodus. However, since then, the notion of the Exodus being an actual historic event has been called into question.

I read Freud's book before I knew much about ancient history in the Levant and I remember looking at possible Exodus dates to see if it could be plausible to line up the idea that exiles from Akhenaten's reign could have been the Hebrews in the Exodus story. Now, I don't think there is any reason to do so and it might be good to give the notion a new look.

I don't think that it is enough to say that "Redford has been soundly refuted." I have seen that claim too many times and found that the supposed refutation never occurred or was actually weak or was answered. Could you be more specific?

I think this thesis deserves another look.

outhouse

Sure

If I remember the arguments correctly, it comes down to the depictions carved in stone showing their attire, did not line up in any way shape or form, with what it was supposed to. Going off memory here.

If I thought Donalds work required more refutation, I would go into this further. I personally find it a waist of time to chase down poor work. I think some of his work on Egypt was fine.




I personally think it doesn't deserve another look because Israelites had not even started monotheism for some 730 years after Akhenaten.

Their religion not Egyptian, but Canaanite. Settlements started after 1200 BC which mirrored the collapsed Canaanite culture one would expect to see.

outhouse

Because you asked grog, im going through "The Bible Unearthed" where they expand on Donalds work

Grog

Ok, first, this is not a thesis that I have any attachment to. I read Freud's book almost 10 years ago, found it interesting, looked into it and saw that it was a theory mostly refuted. What I remember is that the issue of timing as the primary strike against it.

Now you are saying it has something to do with "attire carved in stone?" And who is "they" and what is "what it was supposed to?" None of that makes much sense. Who made carvings of these exiles lingering the desert? When did they make them? What should they have looked like?

Meaningless.



Going out on a limb here...I think there is something to the criticism based on timing, however, if we consider it carefully, I think it is plausible that this idea could incubate undetected for quite a long time before it would appear in the historical record. And, at any rate, "730 years" I think is maximum. Supposedly Jerusalem was conquered by monotheists in 1000 BC.

outhouse

Supposedly. But all that biblical mythology has been proven to be just that, has it not?

Thats the exact reason why we use archeology and anthropology.

Paintings showing 3 deities were used Yahweh, Asherah and possibly Baal have been found that date to 800 BC, that only reflects a portion of the people.


Monotheism as we know it dates to 600 BC ish, does it not? And even then is it not only institutionalized by the governement?

outhouse

What about what Donald states himself from your link.

Toto

As a common courtesy, could you PLEASE give more coherent citations?

Don't force people to search through all the prior posts to find this link, or identify this "Donald" as Donald Redford.

Put quote tags or quotation marks around quotes.

Cheerful Charlie

Attempts to create a monotheistic Egyptian religion started before Ankhaten, and continued afterwards to at least the later years of Rameses II's reign. This can be seen in a number of hymns, expressing this monotheistic religion found in a series of papyruses known as the Leiden papyruses. There was an attempt to claim Atum was the true god of whom other gods were but an aspect of. Much as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are but aspects of one being.

http://www.maat.sofiatopia.org/amun.htm

Chapter 100

1 100th Chapter.
The One who initiated existence on the first occasion,
Amun, who developed in the beginning,
whose origin is unknown.

5 No god came into being prior to Him.
No other god was with Him who could say what He looked like.
He had no mother who created His name.
He had no father to beget Him or to say : "This belongs to me."
Who formed His own egg.
Power of secret birth, who created His (own) beauty (1).

10 Most Divine God (2), who came into being Alone.
Every god came into being since He began Himself.

------------
Chapter 300

1 300th Chapter.
All the gods are three :
Amun, Re and Ptah, without their seconds.
His identity is hidden as Amun,
5 He is Re as face, His body is Ptah.
Their towns are on earth, fixed for the span of eternity :
Thebes, Heliopolis and Memphis are established perennially.
When a message is sent from the sky, it is heard in Heliopolis,
and repeated in Memphis for the god-with-the-beautiful-face (1),
10 put in a report, in Thoth's writing (2),
directed to the town of Amun, bearing their concerns,
and the matter is answered in Thebes,
by an oracle emerging, intended for the Ennead.
Everything that comes from His mouth,
15 the gods are bound by it, according to what has been decreed.
When a message is sent, it is for killing or for giving life.
Life and death depend on Him for everyone,
except for Him, Amun, together with Re, [and Ptah] : total, 3.

This was not a religion for the masses who do not seem to have known of this theology and adopted Canaanite Gods along with their own, remaining polytheistic. These works were written as early Israelites were settling into their hilltop farms, these Israelites almost certainly knew nothing of what these Ramesside theologians were writing in Egypt.

Many of these hymns are remarkable for their adherence to a monotheistic ideal.

Cheerful Charlie

J-D

If somebody preaches a novel religious message which adapts and incorporates some elements drawn from earlier sources, then I don't think it's accurate to describe it as having been made up out of whole cloth.