stephan huller

How do we know when Pilate ruled?

stephan huller

It is odd also that Pilate is not present in Irenaeus's creed but emerges in the Apostle's Creed. We need widespread acceptance of Luke to date Pilate or Josephus or both. "Dating" the crucifixion to the rule of Pilate is otherwise meaningless and wouldn't appear in a creed because no Christian would know the dates for that historical period. As such Christians didn't know the (a) the day of the week = the synoptics vs John (b) the date = day/month and (c) the year of the Jesus crucifixion OR the original information was suppressed

outhouse

Either way, there were traditions of Pilate placing Jesus on a cross.

Written or oral traditions, these are the earliest traditions.



Your bringing in, later traditions and putting them against earlier ones that have a possibility of being more accurate.


Chasing down Justin and Tertullian other pseudo-Acts are a big mistakes on your part. Both show no knowledge or acquaintance with this work. It is of later origin [middle of the forth century]

andrewcriddle

We know from the Pilate inscription that Pllate ruled during the reign of Tiberius. Tiberius seems to have replaced Augustus' governors reasonably quickly after becoming Emperor. Hence Pilate was in all probability appointed by Tiberius after the death of Augustus.

We have a reference in Cassius_Dio/55 to the deposition of Archelaus c 6 CE, during the last years of the rule of Augustus.

Andrew Criddle

stephan huller

Still none of that is decisive. I don't have Eusebius's statement about the pagan Acts of Pilate in front of me but if we put Josephus to the side for the moment we have Tiberius ruling from 14 - 37 CE and Archelaus dying c 18 CE but that again is from Josephus. Very little is known about the gap here between Archelaus and Pilate. It is difficult to predict the behavior of Emperors. Even if "Herod of Palestine" was Archelaus (which isn't certain) Tiberius could have reinstated him. Outside the history of Josephus we have no guide for all the "Herod" figures we come across. We should revisit the statement in Eusebius

Jaybees

Somewhere I remember a reference to a Teacher of Righteousness who was crucified by the Romans two or three generations or so before 30 C.E. Dead Sea Scrolls?

Anyhow, I thought I'd throw that into the mix.

stephan huller

The year the pagans gave for the crucifixion was 20/21 CE from what I can see. Notice also Eusebius begins by using Josephus to properly date Archelaus

1. The historian already mentioned agrees with the evangelist in regard*to the fact that Archelaus [162] succeeded to the government after*Herod. He records the manner in which he received the kingdom of the*Jews by the will of his father Herod and by the decree of Caesar*Augustus, and how, after he had reigned ten years, he lost his kingdom,*and his brothers Philip [163] and Herod the younger, [164] with*Lysanias, [165] still ruled their own tetrarchies. The same writer, in*the eighteenth book of his Antiquities, [166] says that about the*twelfth year of the reign of Tiberius, [167] who had succeeded to the*empire after Augustus had ruled fifty-seven years, [168] Pontius Pilate*was entrusted with the government of Judea, and that he remained there*ten full years, almost until the death of Tiberius.*2. Accordingly the forgery of those who have recently given currency to*acts against our Saviour [169] is clearly proved. For the very date*given in them [170] shows the falsehood of their fabricators.3. For the things which they have dared to say concerning the passion*of the Saviour are put into the fourth consulship of Tiberius, which*occurred in the seventh year of his reign; at which time it is plain*that Pilate was not yet ruling in Judea, if the testimony of Josephus*is to be believed, who clearly shows in the above-mentioned work [171]*that Pilate was made procurator of Judea by Tiberius in the twelfth*year of his reign.*

maryhelena

Stephan, a reference please re: "Archelaus dying c 18 CE but that again is from Josephus."

stephan huller

Also FWI 20/21 is 49/50 years from the destruction which is a highly significant number. Very little is known about sectarian calculation of Sabbatical years

stephan huller

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herod_Archelaus