FRDB Archives

Freethought & Rationalism Archive

The archives are read only.


Go Back   FRDB Archives > Philosophy & Religious Studies > History of Abrahamic Religions & Related Texts
Welcome, Peter Kirby.
You last visited: Today at 01:23 AM

 
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 05-19-2013, 10:32 AM   #51
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default

Come on, Shesh. EVERYBODY has a religion. Those who have faith in the limited abilities and reaches of archaeology define their religion in terms of what contemporary archaeology does or does not discover. Others have their faith in other directions. The problem is when those who pretend to be free of religion arrogantly look down on the rest, when those who are free of formal religion have a deep and abiding faith in the religion of archaeology or of human rationality, with all the limitations that exist.
Duvduv is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 11:41 AM   #52
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Hillsborough, NJ
Posts: 3,551
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvduv View Post
Is that the be-all and the end-all of this question? One million, that's it?
That being said, what level of technology would be required to make a satisfactory archeological investigation of an area said to have had several million people in order to definitively prove that the location had evidence of that number of people?

Quote:
Originally Posted by semiopen View Post

One reason we could never get sufficient archeological data to prove that several million human beings ever lived in ancient Palestine [anywhere] is that the population never exceeded a million.

The million figure is from around 600 CE.

Demographics_of_Palestine
Actually one million is probably ridiculously high for a United Kingdom for example, more like 300,000.

It isn't easy to estimate population, but it's very unlikely that existing methods are going to turn out absurdly wrong to the low side.

Regarding the desert thing, they would have found evidence for a group of any reasonable size going through there, its not like nobody has been looking.

Just as an example the Age_of_the_Earth is

Quote:
The age of the Earth is 4.54 ± 0.05 billion years (4.54 × 109 years ± 1%).
This means there is a possible error of 1% in the estimate. Nobody is going to say tomorrow

Quote:
Boy did we fuck up, the fundies were right all along.
Granted estimating population isn't this exact, but they didn't miss a million people.
semiopen is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 11:46 AM   #53
Contributor
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Los Angeles area
Posts: 40,549
Default

Those who accept the findings of archaeology are willing to change their opinions when there is new evidence. Those who believe in the Torah are generally not, as you demonstrate with your refusal to accept the complete lack of evidence for the Exodus in spite of extensive searches that have turned up blanks.

That's why it makes no sense to describe archaeology as a religion, and Duvduv is just trying to set up a false equivalency.
Toto is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 11:49 AM   #54
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: USA
Posts: 4,095
Default

I did not say that the two were identical, but they share enough features whereby archaeology (which for all intents and purposes has not changed much about anything in a century) is accepted with FAITH based on its limited findings, resources, scope and technology without regard for the fact of these limitations. To that extent it serves people as a RELIGION.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Those who accept the findings of archaeology are willing to change their opinions when there is new evidence. Those who believe in the Torah are generally not, as you demonstrate with your refusal to accept the complete lack of evidence for the Exodus in spite of extensive searches that have turned up blanks.

That's why it makes no sense to describe archaeology as a religion, and Duvduv is just trying to set up a false equivalency.
Duvduv is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 01:46 PM   #55
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Auburn ca
Posts: 4,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duvduv View Post
I did not say that the two were identical, but they share enough features whereby archaeology (which for all intents and purposes has not changed much about anything in a century) is accepted with FAITH based on its limited findings, resources, scope and technology without regard for the fact of these limitations. To that extent it serves people as a RELIGION.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Those who accept the findings of archaeology are willing to change their opinions when there is new evidence. Those who believe in the Torah are generally not, as you demonstrate with your refusal to accept the complete lack of evidence for the Exodus in spite of extensive searches that have turned up blanks.

That's why it makes no sense to describe archaeology as a religion, and Duvduv is just trying to set up a false equivalency.

Despite all that.

Israelites factually evolved from displaced Canaanites who settled the highlands in a slow gradual increase from 1200 BC onward.
outhouse is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 02:19 PM   #56
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: On the path of knowledge
Posts: 8,889
Default

...and evidently borrowed and adapted much of the religious mythology for their religious folk tales from the older and immediately surrounding civilization's.
The tales don't own much to Egyptian sources or myths, but overwhelmingly to ancient Sumerian, Urgritic, and Mesopotamian roots.
Sheshbazzar is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 03:11 PM   #57
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dixon CA
Posts: 1,150
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Those who accept the findings of archaeology are willing to change their opinions when there is new evidence. Those who believe in the Torah are generally not, as you demonstrate with your refusal to accept the complete lack of evidence for the Exodus in spite of extensive searches that have turned up blanks.

That's why it makes no sense to describe archaeology as a religion, and Duvduv is just trying to set up a false equivalency.
Just for the record, when Manetho and Josephus spoke of the Hyksos's departure from Egypt as the origin of the Israelites, is that all a myth too? There never were Hyksos and/or nobody knows where they went? (I thought Manfred Bietak had excavated their sites in Egypt.) Is there no archaeological support for where they went when defeated in Egypt? (Rohl's idea was that they were the Amalekites, after making his chronological adjustment of several centuries.)
Adam is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 03:22 PM   #58
Contributor
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 27,602
Default

How many times has a finding o the tomb of JC appeared in the media?

There is archeology and there is popular for profit Christian archeology.
I do not have a number, but the Christian market for such stuff is large and profitable.

I've had Christians quote books insisting much of the bible is evidenced.
steve_bnk is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 03:44 PM   #59
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Auburn ca
Posts: 4,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toto View Post
Those who accept the findings of archaeology are willing to change their opinions when there is new evidence. Those who believe in the Torah are generally not, as you demonstrate with your refusal to accept the complete lack of evidence for the Exodus in spite of extensive searches that have turned up blanks.

That's why it makes no sense to describe archaeology as a religion, and Duvduv is just trying to set up a false equivalency.
Just for the record, when Manetho and Josephus spoke of the Hyksos's departure from Egypt as the origin of the Israelites, is that all a myth too? There never were Hyksos and/or nobody knows where they went? (I thought Manfred Bietak had excavated their sites in Egypt.) Is there no archaeological support for where they went when defeated in Egypt? (Rohl's idea was that they were the Amalekites, after making his chronological adjustment of several centuries.)

Stop the nonsense.

Israelites factually evolved from displaced Canaanites.

Manetho and Josephus used the OT mythology as their influence.


As of now there is ZERO Hyksos tie to Israelites.
outhouse is offline  
Old 05-19-2013, 03:47 PM   #60
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Auburn ca
Posts: 4,269
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve_bnk View Post
How many times has a finding o the tomb of JC appeared in the media?

There is archeology and there is popular for profit Christian archeology.
I do not have a number, but the Christian market for such stuff is large and profitable.

I've had Christians quote books insisting much of the bible is evidenced.
Who do you know that is not religious that follows apologetically influenced archeology?


Its faith for the faithful and has nothing to do with real history. You do get a few scholars like Ben Witherington that overreach. But we see it coming.
outhouse is offline  
 

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 12:07 PM.

Top

This custom BB emulates vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.