ProNihil

Ok, well I have been debating on posting this particular subject but, due to the fact that I have seen quite a few insightful and thoughtful posters on this forum, I thought I'd give it a shot.

I am recently out of work due to the fact that I refused (basically) to give in to some fanatical bully and be his "bitch." Now admittedly, I may, in hindsight, have been a little too quick to say "f-y'all", but at the time I felt that I had no choice.

No choice! you say. Well yes. I have just gotten out of a harmful and degrading "relationship" with what I thought was god. Previously I would have turned the other cheek but did not feel that it was the right thing to do in this particular curcumstance because it would have made people think that I was weak, and when people think that you are weak, they don't respect you, and when those people don't respect you, it is really difficult to respect yourself. Due to my newfound worldview I thought that the best thing was for me to go (especially since that job was going nowhere) and avoid any unnecessary violence beteween myself and the afore-mentioned bully. This violence would have no doubt felt good whilst happening, however I could not justify jail time in relation to keeping my pride.

Anyway, so here is where my message starts to have something to do with having an athiestic worldview-

I am out of work, and desperatly in need of a "survival job." Previously, in pre-athiest days, I would have been totally honest on an application and resume, but now I am questionning that particular stance. I am quite articulate, I read alot, I am intelligent and I could do a good job just about anywhere, provided it did not require years of training. I read Max Weber for fun for christ sake! I wasted years of my life feeling sorry for myself and spending time in bible college, when what I really always wanted to do was go to real college and make a lot of money and be around people that don't think saying "fuck you" to someone for the 84th time in one day is actually funny. I need to get into school and go after a degree that will help me find a job where I do not dread going to work every morning, and thus, I need the survival job. Basically, I'm ready to start acting like god. After all, am I not god now? Like the biblical Adam and Eve, do I not say I shall take control and come what may I want to have my eyes opened to the truth of good and evil? It is my assertion that this was the very first sin. Adam and Eve wanted to be like god. An athiestic worldview makes me such, I believe.

So how do all you athiests out there do it in real life? How do you go about getting motivated? How do you manipulate people into thinking that you are the one for the job? I have read all the shitty pseudo-psychological self help jargon books out there, and they all repeat the same things, but I want to know what really works!!! The closest thing I have read to what I think I am looking for is the book "The 48 Laws of Power" by Robert Greene. It however still didn't tell me HOW to go about doing the things that I want to do.

So any of you intelligent, athiest thinkers out there who know what it is to be your own god, and to function at an optimal level in society, please respond. I fear that my years as a christian have dulled me to the point of no return, but I am still kicking damnit!

Thanks

Nira

ProNihil, I don’t think strength necessarily equals a full front attack. I have rather strong opinions my self and can definitely not be pushed around, but don’t often end up in conflicts. There are ways to ensure that your opinions are listened to without going G.W. Bush on people.

There is the old saying about the three that bends being stronger than the one that don’t. That does not mean caving inn, but acting with integrity in my view.

What was the cause for the fallout with your former boss, and just how did you respond?

Never

Partial quote from ProNihil -
"So how do all you athiests out there do it in real life? How do you go about getting motivated? How do you manipulate people into thinking that you are the one for the job?"

Honestly, a college degree in a profession where there is currently a shortage. Therefore, while I try to do my best to put up with idiots, it helps to know that if at any time I no longer want to put up with said idiots, I can just tell them to stuff it. It actually makes it easier to tolerate them. I honestly like what I do (hospital pharmacist). Also, I don't need to manipulate people into thinking I'm the one for the job. I have lots of experience and know what I'm doing. I've also gone the extra mile to learn all the technology associated with the profession so I'm the only one in my department who knows how to program the computers and interface equipment and such. I haven't had to apply for a job since 1985.

Basically, I'd suggest getting whatever job you can to hold you over while you get a degree, skill, certificate or whatever for a job that you would enjoy doing and there is a demand for.
Whatever you decide, it sounds like a good thing that you got out of your last job.
Good Luck.

ProNihil

Nira Wrote-
What was the cause for the fallout with your former boss, and just how did you respond?

Well, it was about something so aseninie actually that it would be funny otherwise. I was employed as a laborer at an operating steam facility. We were pumping steam into the ground in order to facilitate the growth of bacteria that would "eat" the fuel that was slowly leaked there over a long period of time. I cannot go into further detail because I signed something saying I wouldnt. This is with the Department of Defense after all.

Anyway, after having come to work one day, I was sitting waiting for shift change to occur when the other shifts "operator" or boss came in only to begin chewing my ass out for leaving my work clothes hanging on the rack in the common area. Needless to say, I was in shock at this, having never heard anything about it before and was quite angry that this person would come in and just immediatly begin an assault on me. I later found out through a supervisor that this person had been irritated at my actions before, and had asked said supervisor to talk to me about this problem. This wouldn't have been a problem for me had someone come up to me and said, "hey, there is a better place to hang your work garments" but this never happened. I felt at the time that due to this man's attitude and the way in which he addressed me, that he did not want only my work clothes hanging in a different spot, but he really wanted, perhaps subconsciously, me to "bow down" to him. Keep in mind that this is a man who is constantly batteling for first place in the "alpha male" category. Any of you who have done labor in a highly paid atmosphere will know what I am talking about.

I admit, that this man was much more skilled than I, and to the Company, was more of an asset. The deal was however, that I deemed that he was making himself out to be more than I as a human being. I know this is not unheard of but for some reason this really made me angry and so rather than "bow down" to his wishes, I quit.

Sometimes I wish that I had not, as I was making very good money due to it being a government paid job, but when I sit back and cogitate on it a while, I wonder had I not, how much my self-worth would be worth to me now. I hold that I made the right decesion, and am now faced with the ramifications of the afore-mentioned. I am hoping that someone on these message boards will have the proper "fodder" to get me through this mess and on into where I should be, by my estimation anyway.

scarmig

Smile a lot.

No, seriously.

No matter what the resume says, the best thing that everyone forgets to do is to walk in smiling, happy, confident, positive. A simple, consistent smile will leave a positive memory in a person's mind, and when they pick up your resume later it will be looked at in a more positive light.

Rhea

I heard a Very Useful concept at a seminar once. It has stayed with me and been my strength and direction in situations like you describe many, many times. It is an old friend. A loyal friend. A helpful friend. It is a phrase which has made me happier, a better worker, a better friend.



Generally Speaking, people do not do mean things on purpose.

That's it, just that.
From your post it sounds like - and I say this with gentle friendship (assume I'm on YOUR side...) - you have a chip on your shoulder.

Chips are no good to anyone.

They make opponents out of potential friends and they make victors out of theretofore powerless opponents. This chip will be visible to interviewers. This chip will make fun jobs into chores.

It appears from your post that you recognize that you could have done something differently and got a different result, but you're not really sure what or how.

And that's my advice for your future. If you had assumed that the complainer was not being mean but was instead frustrated and perhaps acting badly himself by not bringing it up before it pissed him off (perhaps he was assuming you were being mean on purpose by hanging your clothes there?)... At any rate, if you had acted as if he was mistaken instead of mean then you would have known to reply, "Oh! I am SO sorry!" (and you would be) "I didn't mean to cause a trouble! Where is a better place to hang them?"

I'm not saying this as an accusation, mind you, just a mind exercise - and really just a recollection of my OWN experiences.

When I act as though the person had good intentions, then they are often able to recognize that they were being mean by accident and they apologize. And even the occasional person who was being mean on purpose is obliged to pretend it was an accident and mend their ways.

....

So. Get your survival job, and get your education/trade skill. And all along the way don't forget that no one - I mean NO ONE - cares about you as much as you do nor should they, it's not their job, and that furthermore, the likelihood of them caring enough about you to be mean on purpose is Very Small.

Depending on your needs for income & stability, you REALLY need to evaluate what are your strengths and weaknesses. Don't pursue a career that leans on something that is a weakness. If you are not detail-oriented, and find that tedious, then DO NOT pursue a detail-oriented career just because it pays well.

If you have a hard time following through and meeting deadlines, then it will behoove you to pursue something that is short-task oriented. Example - procrastinators do well to have all of their tasks presented to them. I am a procrastinator - I made a GREAT Bank Teller because my customer would walk up, and I would deal with them, and they would leave. No room at all for my weakness to hurt me. KWIM?

I'm not going to tell you what to seek out because I might list something that pays well, seems interesting, but leaves you open for failure because it requires a skill that is one of your weaknesses. What if I said, go learn how to draw blood by volunteering at the Red Cross, get a job at a hospital as a phlebotomist and earn good $$ while getting educated... but all the while you don't have patience with clueless people? Ugh. Hospitals are full of them - and they're feeling vulnerable. That would wind up being a BAAAAD job for you.


...

How to exude confidence? I can answer that (from my own experience - hope it works for you...)
Know Yourself

Spend time figuring out what things you value. What things are important. Write them down. Make a little document about what kind of person you ARE and what kind you want to BE. (there might be some growing required to match the two - there was for me). Seriously, it sounds hokey but if you have a Good Handle on what things you VALUE, which is to say, what your values are then you will, in my humble opinion, be confident and show it.

Example - I value kindness. I really do. I think that is a valuable thing. Writing that down reminds me to SHOW kindness. I find value to my happiness in helping change for the better. Writing that down reminded me to seek out charities. I value consistency - that is, trustworthiness, integrity. Sound like a no-brainer? Not until I wrote it down about myself did I stop to think how I could display it, maintain it and value it in others.


When I had made all of these understandings of what kind of person I was - and what kind of person I wanted to be I felt great confidence. YES. I'm on the path to the person I want to be. Side benefit: I am now able to recognize people I admire and by whom I am inspired. And isn't THAT cool?

Good luck! (sorry about the novel-length response...)

P.S. - and chance of asking for your old job back? It will take an accepting of the fact that - regardless of how wrong or not the bully was - you made a bad choice in the way you interacted with others. That was YOUR bad. The good news is that you can accept that fact and move ahead. That option is yours alone to exercise. If the fact is that there was a better place to hang your stuff, then the bad way it was presented is HIS FLAW and not a reflection on you. There is no need, none at all, for you to accept his flaw as a bad vibe in your life. It's HIS flaw. make him keep it on his own back. Smile, think about the situation (can I hang my stuff elsewhere? Does it hurt me? Does it matter?) and keep your actions independent of his. Even if his actions make extra work for you and it does matter, you still make him keep HIS flaw of poor presentation. You smile and attempt to solve it with him or an arbitrator as if it is a reasonable discussion of where is the best place to hang your stuff.

Rhea

Just a comment on this.

This is not a mandatory game. You are not required to play.

Once you have YOUR confidence in what is important to YOU (doing a reliable job, enjoying life outside of work, getting along with others) then you can realize that you can leave the game and that you do not have to WIN to leave. You just decide not to play. Separate each action from the competition. Withdraw from the competition and act only on the underlying actions. Where do the clothes hang, not who says so. What if he had a reasonable alternative location? If it becomes a contest just because he said so then you are equally guilty of "constantly batteling for first place in the 'alpha male' category" aren't you? Separate the actions. Where should you hang them? Is that a good answer? Oh, okay. No competition. YOU have withdrawn form the ring. Since it sounds like you don't want to be in the ring, does that make sense? And be careful to not feel superior because he's dancing in the ring and you're not. Stick with just being content at not being in the ring - well, that would be what I value, anyway, and would make me content.

Richard1366

I think that Rhea has the right idea. It also sounds like you need to do something in the area of anger management. It is not necessary to win or get the last word in every situation, especially when it is your supervisor. Whatever job you take, do the very best that you can and let the weaknesses of others in their inability to deal appropriately with those they manage bounce off you. Until you complete your degree, you are in a job simply for a dependable source of disposable income so that you can ultimately reach your goal. Ideally, it would be in your best interest if you could get your old job back, would a sincere apology help to get you back in. . Apologizing is not a sign of weakness, it is usually a sign of your strength in the ability to use others in the short run to reach your ultimate goal.

Never

Now that you've explained what happened more, let me just say that I have a supervisor like that too. Seems to be trying to be the alpha male only he treats me as his biggest competition and I'm a female. Anyway, I figure the day may come when I just can't handle it but meanwhile I'm being nice and polite and staying just to piss him off.
Don't ever stoop to their level or give them too much satisfaction in your response. These people exist everywhere.

Shake

I don't have much to add on the personal side, I think it's been well covered. But I have to ask: are you still interested in gov't jobs? Here is a site that lists gov't job openings all across the country. Having previously been a federal employee will help you if this is the path you choose.

Good luck.