Kharakov

I agree with Shadowy Man.

Nothing can be proven without any doubt, except for your own existence to yourself. Every other "proof" has to have an assumed truth to back it up.

John Page

Except the statement above. Back to the paradoxes of language, do not pass go, do not collect $200.....

Cheers, John

Kharakov

Hi John-

"Nothing can be proven without any doubt, except for your own existence to yourself".

The statement only has meaning as long as I agree to define my state of being as existence. Language can be infinitly regressed. So I never have solid ground for proof using language- I can just know that I am, and define that as existence. Although I have defined "existence" as my actual state- it gives no validity to the statement beyond that which comes from my authority to define my state as existence.

This runs into problems when I match words with another apparent entity: I can never know if the words actually mean the same thing for the other entity (or do they just match up the same way)- I have to take it on faith that the authority that I bind my existence to language with is the same authority that the other entity binds its use of language with.

-k

universatile

Im not a philosopher, educated wise in western philosophy, and that may be why people ignore my posts but I want to join the conversations all the same so here goes...
if causality does exist then does that mean there was an origional cause to all events? Before "time"?
(Im not arguing for god)

John Page

+k:

I concur. Of course, there are times when one can doubt one's own existence - I wonder what causes that, philosophy?

Cheers, John

[ July 18, 2002: Message edited by: John Page ]</p>

Kharakov

lol

-k

[ July 18, 2002: Message edited by: Kharakov ]</p>

Kharakov

Universatile-

You have to ask yourself this- what caused the original cause to cause itself? Infinite regression. You can't find a logical beginning.

Something that might help is the thought that causes are finite events in an infinite progression. So while something does have a cause- the cause was caused as well .

-k

universatile

Thats why I am not convinced that there is a god-because in my mind I cant think back to any logical beggining.
However it does seem that perhaps if everything was caused then there should be something that origionally caused, getting something from nothing.

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: universatile ]</p>

Shadowy Man

You can't fool me... it's turtles all the way down!

John Page

k++:

After "infinite", insert "or circular"?

Cheers, John

[ July 19, 2002: Message edited by: John Page ]</p>