Jobar

Alert to all posters on this thread-

Because we have had problems with splitting extremely long threads, I plan to close it in the next day or so, and start a new thread with the last page or two of posts from this one. (Yes, it will mean splitting it; I will copy it to the MCR to be certain it does not wind up erased.)

From now on, any thread which goes beyond 10 pages (250 posts) will be treated this way.

If anyone has comments on this, please PM me, or start a topic in BP&C. Jobar, moderator.

NonContradiction

How do you know that? If God were to prevent evil deeds and evil thoughts, then how would you know about hypothetical evils? Knowledge of good and evil would be in the mind of God only.

NonContradiction

How would you know?

If good and evil didn't exist in the world, or in your mind, then how would you be able to formulate a standard of good and evil independent of God?

Dr Rick

So is there or is there not a morality independent of the Christian god; imo, if he existed, there wouldn't be; what's your belief?

Thomas Metcalf

Originally posted by NonContradiction :

God need not prevent all evil, just more evil than he's preventing now. If God prevented more evil, he'd be a morally better being; but it is incoherent to say there is a morally better being than a morally perfect being.

Tyler Durden

"From Paradise: 'Good and Evil are the prejudices of God' - said the snake."

In other words, either morality comes from God's subjectivity, and whenever God seems to violate his ethics, it's called the "theological suspension of the ethical", or God is beholden to something greater. A clever fella told me once that there is no distinction between the subject and the valuation framework whatsoever.

Xixax

Hypothetical knowledge of pain and suffering could be given to us by an omnipotent, omniscient creator. We would never have to experience it, yet would still know that if it were to occur it would be evil.

Is this not a possible choice for the omnipotent and omniscient god?

NonContradiction

You didn't answer my question. How would you be able to formulate a standard of good and evil independent of God if good and evil didn't exist in the world or in your mind? The answer is you wouldn't be able to. You wouldn't even have hypothetical knowledge of good and evil because the idea of good and evil wouldn't even exist in your mind.

If God prevented evil in the world, and in your mind, how would you know that God was preventing evil without Him telling you that He was doing so?

If God doesn't prevent evil in the world, then He isn't all-good. If God does prevent evil in the world, and in the minds of people, then He would be all-good by a standard of morality dependent upon Himself. As I have said before, all of the atheists I have ever talked to before have asserted that that standard of morality would be arbitrary and meaningless.

Either way, God can't win. This isn't anything more than the character assassination of God.

Dr Rick

So?

Then let Him tell us all about it.

So?

First of all, not all atheists assert what you assert they assert.

Second of all, so what if they did; so morality would be meaningless and arbitrary to them; god would know better, and we still wouldn't be suffering even if our lack of suffering was meaningless to us.

NC, your recent posts aren't addressing the issues; they're strawmen.

So God's character is being assasinated, he can't win, we find his standard of morality arbitrary and meaningless, etc., etc.,...If he is letting us suffer just to avoid these things, he cannot be benevolent. As an omnipotent being, he could prevent all those outcomes and still avoid evil by making us differently, anyways.

haverbob

Evil does exist. In doesn't exist in reality, it exists in our mind. We create it. After we create it, we then apply a standard of good or evil towards God. but in reality God is just God, nothing more, nothing less. He has nothing to do with the silly notions, labels... that we create.