Darth Dane

The Vedas doesn't comment on either teh bible or teh quran, does this make it valid?

This supposedly is also divine revelations I might add.

Book of God and so on.







DD - Love & Laughter

Diadectes

Isn't this where the Gnostic Christians come in? The idea that the God of the OT is not only a fake, but quite possibly mad, and that we should take pretty much everything he says with a huge pinch of salt?

Vandrare

.... a huge pinch of salt, a slice of lemon, and a shot of tequila

:-D Anna

VivaHedone

Puzzling and disappointing lack of Christians in this thread... Where are they?

VivaHedone

Magus55, could you make a theist contribution? Anyone? I'd desperately like to hear Christian responses.

Magus55

Well, if we are accepting the Bible as the divine word of God, then God has to be omniscient, or He wouldn't be able to fulfill over 300 prophecies predicted 1000 years earlier through Jesus Christ. God has to be omnipotent, or He couldn't create the universe, perform miracles, and ressurect the dead. He is benevolent because He sent His Son to Earth to die for our sins so that we can be saved. Now if God lied about it all, you have to ask yourself, why bother? What is point of coming to Earth in the flesh, and dying by human hands to save humanity? What is the point of offering any salvation at all?

And if God lied to the Apostles, they would of known about it. God tells us He is omnipotent, and then cures the blind, walks on water, parts the sea, ressurects the dead, so how could He be lying? Since Jesus proved He was God through his ministry and actions, being witnessed by His disciples, we can conclude that Jesus is telling the truth, since He did what He said He would. For example, the OT describes in detail, Jesus' crucifiction. Now since God was the only one around to be there for both the prophecy prediction and fullfillment, He had to be telling the truth, since in order for Him to have lied, He would have had to state the prophecy, but Jesus would have never been crucified ( since we are taking the Bible as correct and the Word of God, this did happen). God didn't just list His attributes without no backing. God showed the people in the Bible proof of His character and divinity, and if we accept God as divine based on His actions, then His divinity requires Him to be perfect and Almighty.

What right does the Government have in declaring laws that must be followed, or else be punished? The difference between the two, is that God is infinite and perfect, therefore we are held to infinitely higher standards and laws, than a government of our peers (humans) could ever declare. God created us and the universe, and declared all the laws by which His standards of perfection require.

Another analogy would be, why do parents have the right to discipline their children, and tell them what to do? What gives a parent the right to meddle in their children's lives?

He did justify and prove the veracity of His word. Just because people don't accept His proof as valid, doesn't make it so. If the government doesn't justify the laws they write on your terms, enough for you to accept them, are you exempt from punishment just because you didn't agree with them, or you wanted to follow your own laws instead?

He asks us to have faith in Him. We can never meet up to His expectations, so He doesn't expect us to be perfect. He does however expect us to try and meet up to His expectations, even if we fail. Through this, He sees who truly loves Him and who doesn't. If we have faith in Him, and seek to know and obey Him, He will guide us towards His expectations and hopes for us. If we don't want faith in Him, and don't care to believe, He gave us that choice as well.

Because the reasoning He gave you is now corrupted by your own sin, as well as temptation from Satan. Evil and sin turn your reasoning from a tool given from God to understand His creation, to a tool that attempts disprove Him in order to not face consequences or continue to live the way you want to. Its when humans use reasoning in opposition of God, in order to disprove Him or sastify your own needs and wants, that your reasoning is corrupt.

Well, God did provide proof. Just because that proof isn't good enough for you, doesn't invalidate it as such. How would you know what justification is required in order to demand us to follow such laws? By what criteria do you claim to understand the universal purpose and justification behind eternal punishment? Is it based on your finite mind attempting to justify that which you can't understand? That fact of the matter is, you aren't omniscient, you aren't omnipotent and you aren't perfect. So by what right does your finite mind have, to justify the actions and mind of an infinite, perfect God, who created you? What gives you the ability to determine whats right and wrong, over God, who created morality? You may be able to declare whats morally right and wrong of other humans, because you are at the same level of understanding and expectations. But you are infinitely less than God, and as such, don't have the right to tell Him whats right and wrong, because His expectations and understanding are infinitely higher than yours.

This is a rather flawed view. How can a non omnipotent, omniscient and perfect being punish anyone without sovereign authority? If God only claimed to be who He said He was, and not who He actually is, He has no power to judge you. But if He is who He said He is, then His Sovereign authority dictates and judges the entire universe on His criteria, and no one elses.

How is God ruling your life? He sets boundaries for you to follow, like a parent. If you break them, there are consequences. He gave you free will for a reason, so that you aren't just a robot being controlled your whole life, but that you get to make the choice of whether to follow God's guidance, or rebell.

mark9950

I have never seen these words in the OT or NT describing the God or Jesus ever.

Where did you get the omniwhatever ideas?They are not in the OT and NT.

god is elohim not omniwhatever.

Bumble Bee Tuna

I think Tom Sawyer's remarks must be sarcastic, but if they weren't, I think they would be best responded to by a quote from the Daily Show's Stephen Colbert, on Even Stephven, Islam vs. Christianity:

"It's not my logic, Steve, it's God's logic; as written in the Bible, every word of which is true. And we know every word is true, because the Bible says that the Bible is true, and, if you remember from earlier in this sentence, every word of the Bible is true!"

How can you argue with that logic?

Magus, the assumption for this argument is that the Bible is the word of God, not that the Bible is the true word of God. I believe the point of the OP is to say- OK, the Bible is the word of a deity. How do I know the deity isn't just lying to me for his own nefarious purposes?

-B

Magus55

Do you not know the meaning of those words? They are adjectives, not nouns.

DoubleDutchy

He did not. Just that people like you accept his proof as valid doesn't make it so.