Ronin

Already answered here, BG ~

If more people said "I care about you" and offered so many better ways to provide comfort and strength the healing process would be far less confusing and nonsensical.

And additional consideration is found here ~

Religions are harmful to individual integrity and reflective of a reliance on supernatural hocum that detracts from real and active compassion.

My conviction is that such a reliance on mysticism and 'faith' is not a productive way to seek solutions to very human concerns.

Any silent acquiescence to such addle brained behavior merely perpetuates the traits in others as they are offered no alternative.

I see, firsthand, the results of such a reliance on the imaginary in my career...and it detracts from order and reason.

Also, I am not 'offended' or 'sensitive' to the issue.

I am merely offering my conviction just as you did ~ so there is no reason to try to mischaracterize my unpopular refutation of prayer.

There's really no way to know, however, the compassionate example that I provided would not run the risk of offending the mourner...while the questions already posed in this thread indicate specifically how confusing it can become when imaginary deities begin to compete over lost loved ones.

Beetle

Trent Dilfer is a strong evangelical christian, IIRC, so I imagine he will actually be emotionally lifted by the fact that so many are praying for him. It may just be a placebo effect, but I doubt it's going to offend him, or do him any harm.

Ronin

Ah, evangelical...no Muslim petitions then.

Appius

A rather strong generalization, no? It may surprise you to know that a faithful Christian would not only pray, but also help in any way he could. Furthermore, he would he out of love, by love I mean kindness, caring, compassionate.

Enai

Hmm. I think that this can also be used as an argument to not start a discussion about the evils of prayer over the still almost open grave of lost loved ones, since it will very likely offend the mourner(s).

To be clear, I'd tell somebody who wanted to pray for me if I had a broken leg: "No thanks, but would you help me with grocery shopping?" If my child or a person I love had just died, on the other hand, I would accept their prayer offer as evidence that they don't know how to deal with this in a better way, but still tried. I wouldn't discuss it then. Maybe later, but not in that moment. I also think that while I believe religion is a delusion and thus a harm in its own right, I don't have the right to tell people that they're delusional about things very dear to them. It's not my business, since it's their head, not mine. If I have grounds to believe that these delusions make the person a danger, OTOH, I'd seek professional help.

Enai

Ronin

I make my assessment based on the historical record and current events.

I am not anti-theist and realize that the bringing of food, hugs and sincere condolences comes from our common humanity.

This thread, however, focuses on the pros and cons of the ritualistic, confusing and meaningless act of petitioning deities...and that is what I address topically.

Ronin

I never stated that I would start a discussion about the evils of prayer with a mourner (atheist or theist), during such a vulnerable time...I am discussing it here and am fully aware that the superstitious have the upper hand at that particular time in promoting their myths without dissent.

That is one of the points I hoped to have made clear in my posts.

I have, however, made it a distinct point to offer refutations of these types of religious assertions at less emotional times in order to bring to their world the knowledge that reality in plain view is more wonderful to experience than some third rate science fiction story full of error.

Sabine Grant

I would not want to cause you to take a bad fall from your chair but I actualy agree with your statement.... indirectly though.

I would prefer if I were grieving the death of a loved one to have a human presence attending to my personal pain rather than a crowd in prayer for me. At times I faced difficult circumstances and even though I am a christian, it almost bothered me that someone would pray loudly by me and for me when I only longed for pure human empathy. I believe that God can manifest comfort thru that human empathy and it needs to be active and demonstrated by presence and positive actions.( this is where the "indirectly" comes from).
I have caught myself being rather inefficient as a christian telling someone who just offloaded their pain on my shoulder " I'll pray for you" as I would go on with my personal happy merry life not realizing that the requirement was consistant presence and counseling.
Prayer has become a social gesture almost... the principle of praying in the secrecy of a bedroom behind a close door was meant to promote a petition from the believer to God not to make it a public announcement with an audience.
Possibly the prayer of a deaf and mute believer may be a delight to God.....

Ronin

Enai

Of course you didn't say that you would start a discussion on the pro's and con's of prayer with a mourner when s/he is very vulnerable. I think I just didn't do a good job of reading your posts (english is a second language for me, so I have trouble picking up finer nuances). Your position seems to be: "They do something nonsensical, but I will only discuss the nonsense on appropriate times". If that is true, we agree.

Have a nice labour day!
Enai