thebeave

Great topic, COAS and a subject I've often thought a lot about as well. Here's my observation:

People that do not have a strong science background or an understanding of the scientific methods and processes often give a reasoned and supportable scientific conclusion as much weight as, say, anecdotes from "wise old Mom" (or any other authority or admired figurehead). They may have had a deep, long-term respect of the wisdom of "wise old Mom" from a very young age and tend to give her high credibility as an adult as well (often in subjects for which she lacks real understanding). They do not understand or accept that sound scientific theories are repeatable, verifiable and have been tested over and over, ad naseum by perhaps thousands of scientists over many years. My own mother is a good example of this. She has essentially zero interest in, or knowledge of science. Oftentimes, she tells me to do, or not do, certain things with regard to my health that are basically "old wives tales" and have proven by science to be essentially worthless. For example, she believes you are supposed to wait 1 hour after eating before you swim, or you'll get cramps and die. I try to tell her (nicely) that that idea was proven scientifically to be bogus, but she just "poo poo and p'shaw"'s me and says something like, "Well, those darn scientists don't know everything", yet because she got that notion from her mother (a big role model in her life early on), and her old circle of friends also accept and believe in it, then in her mind, it still holds true, regardless of what 1,000 or 10 million Phd's and MD's say about it. It's so ingrained in her psyche after 60 years, that there is no chance of her ever changing her view on it, short of a brain transplant. The science means nothing to her. If, say its a subject of science for which she has no personal stake, prior opinion or anecdotal belief in (say the discovery of the magnetic field on Mars), she'll accept the words of the scientists blindly, because it does not result in conflict with her ingrained beliefs.

I've met quite a few people who fit into the aforementioned style of thinking. There is something weird about the human brain that forces it to give first priority to long-held beliefs (however irrational) over cold, hard, "in-your-face" facts. I think us free thinkers on this forum generally accept the cold, hard facts first before beliefs. This really makes us a unique and tiny minority in this world. You might even say we're "mutants".

christ-on-a-stick

Hi thebeave - Hey.. that makes sense. It explains why the fundies have no problem with modern medicine, etc. but will flatly refuse to accept discoveries made using the same scientific method it if conflicts with their ingrained beliefs. They have a vested interest in giving it (the scientific method) credence on one hand and dismissing it entirely if it comes to a conclusion they don't like. Well, then, I'm glad to be a mutant!

beastmaster

Sticky:

(1) I'm no expert on wackos but I believe that Jehovah's Witnesses, for one, reject all science, including medicine. (I guess you just can't underestimate the tendency of fundies to escape hypocrisy by lurching ever further toward radical fundy-land.)

(2) I think that many YEC Fundamentalists are not anti-science per se; rather they believe that creationism *is* scientific and that there is a reasonable but suppressed minority of scientists that differ from the neo-Darwinist theory of evolution. IOW: "penicillin is good science, but so is creationism!"

(3) Other fundies will differentiate between "hard" sciences (like chemistry) and "soft" sciences (like biology). They think that we can trust the efficacy of penicillin because it has been tested in a laboratory, but that evolution is an untested theory and is really just a matter of a "popularity of beliefs" contest among scientists (who are predominantly non-Xn).

/doffing my fundy mind-reading cap

christ-on-a-stick

Good points, beast. I'm pretty sure Jehova's Witnesses use some modern medicine but most notably reject blood transfusion - I'd have to google it. I think it's the Christian Scientists who eschew all modern medicine and rely on prayer. In a sick and twisted way, they are at least consistent in their belief and practice. It's most unfortunate, however, when that consistency leads to suffering for their children who have no choice in the matter - there have been several criminal cases leading from this IIRC.

Great point about there being some fundies who are really convinced that creationism *is* scientific. However, it seems that they MUST be aware that those scientists who believe in/research it are a vast minority; what I wonder most is if they really believe that they majority of scientists who DO accept evolution are A) involved in a conspiracy, B) lying for some other reason or ??? That's what gets me....

The ultra-fundies I have known and... er, been related to have been of the "they're all just lying because they deny God" variety. Wacky wacky wacky... they then have to deal with the fact that there are plenty of CHRISTIAN scientists who accept evolution. But we all know the answer to that.... Not True Christians (TM)

I wish we could get a YEC on the line here....

beyelzu

Sorry Gregg,

but the short story Harrison Bergeron is nothing like the movie. In the short story Harrison is almost god like in his greatness. He isnt actually just a bright guy.

beastmaster

Well, since you have the privilege and pleasure of knowing real-life fundies and I don't, I guess I'm none too qualified to answer.

Nevertheless, imagining if I were a fundy, what would I think . . . /squinting

Fundy-Me would say that scientists are not lying, but rather are honestly deluded by their commitment to metaphysical materialism. Because science *dogmatically assumes* materialism and allows no possibility of supernatural/spiritual solutions, scientists will inevitably overlook the "obvious" holes in their secular theories and trenchantly defend their convoluted "theories."

beyelzu

Sabine,

When I visit an alien planet and I see a giant purple alien killing people. This occurs several times. I will then use induction to decide that giant purple aliens are murderers. I will note any exceptions to this general rule. But making generalizations is not the horrible evil that people pretend that it is. Furthermore, I have seen many more xians be incredibly irrational thann I have nontheists. So I use induction.


To the op.

I think that xians deal with science just like they do the bible, they take the parts that they like not because of rationality but because it fits into their pre-existing world view.


Which is why they take the third law of thermocynamics and completely ignore evolution.