Freethought & Rationalism Archive

KC · 02-07-2003, 06:29 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Gooch's dad
What greatly disturbs me is the bit about Ashcroft's Justice Dept. investigating the case. Why? It should be obvious, as others have pointed out, that the student has no standing for a suit.

GRRRRRR, Ashcroft really pisses me off.

You might enjoy this webswite then:

John Ashcroft is Watching You

Cheers,

KC

RufusAtticus · 02-07-2003, 06:39 AM

Part of my respose to this "kinds" bullshit is

So what? Humans still continue to be humans, hominins, hominids, primates, eutherians, mammals, amniotes, tetrapods, osteichthyes, gnathostomes, vertebrates, chordates, deuterostomes, bilaterians, metazoans, eukaryotes, and biotes.

Dogs still contine to be dogs, canines, carnavores, eutherians, mammals, amniotes, tetrapods, osteichthyes, gnathostomes, vertebrates, chordates, deuterostomes, bilaterians, metazoans, eukaryotes, and biotes.

Cats still continue to be cats, felines, carnavores, eutherians, mammals, amniotes, tetrapods, osteichthyes, gnathostomes, vertebrates, chordates, deuterostomes, bilaterians, metazoans, eukaryotes, and biotes.

Maybe Dini needs to add a requirement to his webpage: "You must be able to give me a scientific answer to the question of 'where bulls come from, if they're all male.'"

butswana · 02-07-2003, 08:07 AM

On another message board I got called an uniformed ignorant moron(by an evolution denyer) for my stance that I require a doctor to affirm their belief in evolution before they treat any member of my family. I can't require that they be an athiest(too bad).
It's so easy to say that evolution is JUST a theory. Why would it not be a stretch for a bible believer to claim germ theory is JUST a theory and stop providing immunisations and antibiotics? After all, the bible says diseases are caused by demons. They wouldn't be practicing medicine for long. It would only take one death, but it won't be one of mine.

crazyfingers · 02-07-2003, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by butswana
Why would it not be a stretch for a bible believer to claim germ theory is JUST a theory and stop providing immunisations and antibiotics? After all, the bible says diseases are caused by demons. They wouldn't be practicing medicine for long. It would only take one death, but it won't be one of mine.

I was in the airport last friday (O'Hare) and I was listening to a group of therapists talk nearby. One was a germ theory denyer.

I would have turned around and said someting but the conversation moved on to other things.

But your point is a good one.

Albion · 02-07-2003, 09:52 AM

That opinion piece showed up in the SF Chronicle today. I wonder what sort of responses there have been in the papers in the south and midwest where the column is syndicated.

Grad Student Humanist · 02-07-2003, 10:32 AM

I'm baffled that this whole "case" is getting both the media coverage and now the attention of the US government as well.

Nobody should be required to write someone else a personal recommendation. What's even more ludicrous is trying to assert that the act of recommending someone should be based on "objective" criteria. Grades may be based on objective criteria; recommendations are based on many subjective factors, including the recommender's personal opinion of a person's intangible qualities and fitness as a student. It doesn't get any more subjective than this.

I would certainly never allow myself to be forced into writing a recommendation for any of my students if I didn't think they deserved it. The right to that decision is mine and mine alone. Students don't have a right to a recommendation from anyone. If I were absolutely forced to wirte someone a letter of recommendation I would say "Ok, I'll write you a letter of recommendation, but it will be a bad one."

But I'm curious as to what other professors/teachers think. Next week I'm going to ask all of my professors how they handle recommendations and if they feel obligated to give them out. I'll also ask the director of the composition department if I could ever be forced to give a letter of recommendation to a student who I felt was undeserving.

trunks2k · 02-07-2003, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by RufusAtticus
Maybe Dini needs to add a requirement to his webpage: "You must be able to give me a scientific answer to the question of 'where bulls come from, if they're all male.'"

BRILIANT! :notworthy :notworthy

RufusAtticus · 02-07-2003, 11:38 AM

I was wondering who'd catch that.

Principia · 02-09-2003, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Doubting Didymus
Actually, I think this is less obvious than intuition would suggest. I will have a search for a thread started by scigirl, outlining some of the professional problems that ordinary practising creationist doctors might encounter. The trick is to look at what your average creationist actually denies. There are some very forboding hypothetical problems, especially in immunology! What mental loop-de-loops must a creationist doctor be forced to perform in order to understant the evolution of 'golden' strains from non-resistent species?

Intuition suggests that evolution, which seems to be a small field of biology if you take the proportion of people studying it to be representative, is not all that vital to the practice of such a big field as medicine. Closer inspection reveals that ALL fields of biology are irrevocably tied to evolution, and to try to excise it from any other biological field is to tear apart the threads of knowledge that holds biology together. Real, practical, and possibly deadly problems could arise when you try to throw out the baby, but keep the bathwater.

P.S. can anyone remember the title of scigirls thread?

Evolution and Medicine (again)
Evolutionary theory and Medicine
Ways that evolutionary theory is advancing medicine

Good threads...

02-07-2003, 10:32 AM	#16
Grad Student Humanist Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Melrose, MA Posts: 961	Recommendations aren't a right! I'm baffled that this whole "case" is getting both the media coverage and now the attention of the US government as well. Nobody should be required to write someone else a personal recommendation. What's even more ludicrous is trying to assert that the act of recommending someone should be based on "objective" criteria. Grades may be based on objective criteria; recommendations are based on many subjective factors, including the recommender's personal opinion of a person's intangible qualities and fitness as a student. It doesn't get any more subjective than this. I would certainly never allow myself to be forced into writing a recommendation for any of my students if I didn't think they deserved it. The right to that decision is mine and mine alone. Students don't have a right to a recommendation from anyone. If I were absolutely forced to wirte someone a letter of recommendation I would say "Ok, I'll write you a letter of recommendation, but it will be a bad one." But I'm curious as to what other professors/teachers think. Next week I'm going to ask all of my professors how they handle recommendations and if they feel obligated to give them out. I'll also ask the director of the composition department if I could ever be forced to give a letter of recommendation to a student who I felt was undeserving.

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02-07-2003, 06:39 AM	#12
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	Part of my respose to this "kinds" bullshit is So what? Humans still continue to be humans, hominins, hominids, primates, eutherians, mammals, amniotes, tetrapods, osteichthyes, gnathostomes, vertebrates, chordates, deuterostomes, bilaterians, metazoans, eukaryotes, and biotes. Dogs still contine to be dogs, canines, carnavores, eutherians, mammals, amniotes, tetrapods, osteichthyes, gnathostomes, vertebrates, chordates, deuterostomes, bilaterians, metazoans, eukaryotes, and biotes. Cats still continue to be cats, felines, carnavores, eutherians, mammals, amniotes, tetrapods, osteichthyes, gnathostomes, vertebrates, chordates, deuterostomes, bilaterians, metazoans, eukaryotes, and biotes. Maybe Dini needs to add a requirement to his webpage: "You must be able to give me a scientific answer to the question of 'where bulls come from, if they're all male.'"

02-07-2003, 08:07 AM	#13
butswana Veteran Member Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Indianapolis, IN Posts: 1,804	On another message board I got called an uniformed ignorant moron(by an evolution denyer) for my stance that I require a doctor to affirm their belief in evolution before they treat any member of my family. I can't require that they be an athiest(too bad). It's so easy to say that evolution is JUST a theory. Why would it not be a stretch for a bible believer to claim germ theory is JUST a theory and stop providing immunisations and antibiotics? After all, the bible says diseases are caused by demons. They wouldn't be practicing medicine for long. It would only take one death, but it won't be one of mine.

02-07-2003, 09:52 AM	#15
Albion Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: US east coast. And www.theroyalforums.com Posts: 2,829	That opinion piece showed up in the SF Chronicle today. I wonder what sort of responses there have been in the papers in the south and midwest where the column is syndicated.

02-07-2003, 11:38 AM	#18
RufusAtticus Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: NCSU Posts: 5,853	I was wondering who'd catch that.

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