Rational BAC

Wow---

Powerful post.

We all go through our lives with different experiences. I respect my experiences . And I respect Zora's

Go in peace. Find comfort wherever you can find it.


PS--------I probably should not add anything to this, but I will---

This life is not that serious anyway. Do not take it so. Do the best you can and let the rest go. That is all any of us can do.

Goliath

Rational BAC,

You keep making these claims over, and over, and over, and over, and over, and over again. Each time I see you making these claims, I say the same thing:

I don't believe you!!!

Do you have even the slightest bit of evidence to back up your above, quoted claims?

Sincerely,

Goliath

Calzaer

You're asking for evidence from a person who believes in a Great Sky Fairy?

Rational BAC

Wow--

Goliath did THE BIG ONE again. I wish I knew how to change fonts, but I don't, and I really don't care to learn---------so small print will have to do.

You want some kind of annotated verification Goliath. Well I'll be honest, I don't have that at hand.

I think I have seen figures as high as 30% of Christians are fundies. Could be. I doubt that personally. But could be.

Only other thing I can give you is personal experience. You know Fundies do tend to get in your face---so anyone can get a pretty good idea in one's own area about how many Fundy Christians there are.

My area---fairly cosmopolitan------and again this has to be considered anecdotal-------I would say 30% is WAY TOO HIGH.

1 out of 10 max are fundies where I live--------and that is a HUGE stretch. I'd say more like 1 out of 20. Maybe 1 out of 30. Again only from personal experience so has to be considered anecdotal.

I am sure that if you live in some parts of this very large country, Goliath, it can seem like you are outnumbered 100 to one---that everyone around you is a Fundy whose main mission in life is to make your life miserable. -----

-- If so, I feel very sorry for you. ----------If that upsets you so much---You could always move. Or live with it if you can't move. But do know that the whole USA is not like where you live. Not even close.

Jennie

In my experience, the fundy Christians do not percieve themselves as a majority; they are the One True splinter of Christianity, and all others are not real Christians. Thus, they are a persecuted minority. So part of the difference is simply perspective, whether you view all Christians in one lump; or as lots of little groups.

Goliath

Rational BAC,

Just use the "SIZE" tab on the "Reply to Topic" screen.

Correct. I want some verifiable statistics.

If you come across some evidence that is of more substance than mere anecdotal evidence, please let me know.

Sincerely,

Goliath

Cipher Girl

Wow Zora that was a great post.


RationalBAC you said
Come on now-----you must realize that fundamentalist Christians are a MINORITY in this country.

Trust me------the OVERWHELMING majority of mainstream Christians are not going to let that dinky minority of ding bats ruin your lives.

Its not the fundies and the right wing minority that I'm really afraid of. Its the apathetic "go with the flow christians" that I'm really afraid of. The ones who don't care to "walk a mile in another's shoes." The ones who don't care who leads them, as long as they aren't inconvienced.

wildernesse

My religious belief has very little to do with my competence at my job, and I believe this to be true of all people. They are separate things.

My family are very conservative Christians, and yet they don't require that they do business with Christians. When they go to the doctor (or other profession), they want the best--and sometimes the best are Hindu (or other belief/non-belief) (even here in the South).

Yes, sometimes the religion card is played--my mother had someone who worked for her insinuate that because he was a Christian his poor work and insubordination be overlooked. She told him to wipe that Christian smirk off of his face, she didn't care what he believed--what she wanted was a person who did an excellent job and would follow the rules and his Christianity wasn't going to keep his job.

When I have these examples of how even conservative Christians behave toward believers and non-believers, I find it difficult to believe that people would lose great amounts of business if they stated what they believed. In any case, I don't feel that personal beliefs of the service provider should be part of the marketplace--what is more important is the service/product they provide and the corporate actions of the company (labor relations, environmental actions, etc.).

I also find it hard to feel anything but pity for people who are too spineless to stand up for themselves because it would cause financial or social unpleasentness. I despise myself when I don't speak up for what I think is right, and I don't think very well of other people who have this same fault. (Altho I try to remind myself that I don't have all the details.) Note that the fault isn't atheism, but the inertia of people who see a misconception or unfairness in society and do NOTHING because it makes them uncomfortable.

--tibac

wildernesse

I don't think anyone said that--and if I implied that, I apologize.

Actually, I "started in" in the Secular area of the board--theists are welcome there as long as they don't preach. Stating that the OP was one-sided and incorrect for lumping all Christians together as if they all act in one accord is not preaching.

I'm sorry about the treatment from the Christians in your community. However, I do not find their attitude and actions to resemble the Christianity of most of the people I know--albeit that both of our experiences are colored by the individuals around us.

[snip]

Actually, I also questioned what legislation you would like theists to oppose. I also question that the Christians you know are representative of Christianity as a whole, and that their beliefs and actions are the sole result of Christianity rather than the culture (of which Christianity is a part) in which they live.

I do not think that anyone has insulted anyone else here--if we have, I am sure that the mods have dealt with that. I don't mind criticism of my beliefs--as I feel that it can educate me and provide a more thorough understanding of both my beliefs and the way that other people view Christianity. I enjoy learning about other people and what they think.

However, many people post questions to theists here, and some post statements (like the OP) that should be challenged. I think that when someone sees a misunderstanding about them (or other people) being used, then they have the responsibility to challenge that misunderstanding.

Lastly, I haven't been able to find a Christian website where my views aren't looked at askance, so I figure that I should stay where I find the people most interesting.

What makes you think that Christians do not strenuously object to Ashcroft and his goons in the Justice department and their attempts to curb liberties and freedoms?

I don't dislike atheism. I dislike some people who are atheists, but it's not really because of their beliefs. I dislike some Christians also. I try to see all people as individuals--but it is difficult sometimes.

Horrible things have been done in the name of Jesus, yes. In fact, there are too many to mention. I think this has more to do with the people than Jesus though.

I have not persecuted non-Christians. I make apologies for things that I myself have done, because I bear responsibility for those things. What my ancestors did, can make me feel badly, but any apology that I offer would not be enough nor should it be--real remorse can only come from the perpetrator of the action.

What makes you think that no Christians are working for equal rights?

Why do you think that I, as a Christian, do not: watch CSpan, know and participate in the ACLU, Planned Parenthood, or NOW?

Why do you think that I, as a Christian, do not contact my legislators about civil liberties and women's rights? I don't think that you have any basis in fact about saying these things about Christians as a whole--even though it may be true about the Christians you know. I could say that atheists as a whole are really hot men and good in bed, based on the atheist that I know quite well--however, I bet you could find me atheists who aren't either of those things.

I think you miss the part where I'm trying to talk TO you, not at you. I'm not trying to take shots at you--but this is a discussion board and I think that you should be able to discuss your position--even with people you dislike. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to learn about the post you referred--how do you think that you/I can solve that problem anyway? Since my not being a "fanatic" isn't stopping this situation, I should. . . .? Maybe I'm just slow today.

--tibac

Radorth

Heh. While I disagree with Bush's statement, it is almost precisely what Washington said. The founders as a whole had a very negative view of atheists as well, and Franklin even advertised in a pamphlet that one is safe to practice any religion here because there were no atheists here. The founders had names for Catholic leaders as well. I'm afraid any assertions the founders intended a special haven for atheists is just wishful thinking. Although Madison might have hoped for such, even that not clear since he argued for laws which actually promoted the Gospel.

All that said, I think you must live in Georgia as well. I have no idea what you are talking about and you really have no evidence to back up you claims, unless you define a "fundy" so broadly as to make it meaningless. I've never heard ONE Christian in my church say anything personally derogatory about atheists EVER. Saying we all hate them all is just paranoid nonsense.

If you took a rational view of this, instead of the mentality of a witch hunter, you'd know that the relevant Supreme Court cases are almost never decided in favor of "fundies." You seem to have the same "I'm being assaulted by crucifixes" mentality as another of our atheist friends here.

Rad