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Old 06-07-2003, 06:24 AM   #101
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Originally posted by Nowhere357
However, in my experience, when I feel compelled to help/protect others, rational justification is involved only after the fact. The "feeling" provides it's own justification, during the fact.

Doesn't this indicate that rationality is not our only tool, as we try to understand our existence?
I would think that the emotions/feelings we experience in response to external stimuli are only understood when reasoned about.

What do you think?
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Old 06-07-2003, 06:34 AM   #102
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Originally posted by AJ113
Yes. However we may each have differing definitions of the term "rational person." My own definition would involve a person being generally rational in order to be classed as a rational person.
I agree.

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Nowhere: Or is this unsupported opinion a mere irrational belief?
Have you read my posts or are you just trying to be clever with words? NB. This is not a false dichotomy. It's either one or the other, pal.
The "unsupported opinion" is your idea that "... he has admitted that his faith is irrational. This, IMO, disqualifies him from making any claims about being a rational individual."

Compare this to your definition above. He can claim to be rational if he is generally rational.

What reason do you have, to think that a person's one irrational belief is sufficient to deny that person's general rationality?

Btw yes I was trying to be clever with words. Clearly, I'm not very good at it.
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Old 06-07-2003, 06:50 AM   #103
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Originally posted by Luiseach
I would think that the emotions/feelings we experience in response to external stimuli are only understood when reasoned about.

What do you think?
Absolutely. Note the two components we use to reach understanding here. We know the value of "reason". It's the other component that I'm talking about.


Btw, where in the UK are you located?
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Old 06-07-2003, 06:56 AM   #104
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Originally posted by Nowhere357
Absolutely. Note the two components we use to reach understanding here. We know the value of "reason". It's the other component that I'm talking about.
The value of emotions...I think that would depend to how we decide to react to them. How we interpret them using our reason...I see the process as symbiotic....


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Btw, where in the UK are you located?
The best part, of course...Scotland...

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Old 06-07-2003, 07:29 AM   #105
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Originally posted by Luiseach
The value of emotions...I think that would depend to how we decide to react to them. How we interpret them using our reason...I see the process as symbiotic....
Yes.

If we consider instinct, which manifests in life due to genetic memory, to be a form of knowledge, then I think we may have access to a feeling of knowing, which is not based on reason, and yet which may be valid. Just a thought.

What do you suppose it feels like to be aware of a genetic memory?

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When I think of Scotland, I think of castles and golf and mist. And the damn british. What do you think of?
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Old 06-07-2003, 08:36 AM   #106
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Originally posted by Nowhere357
Yes.

If we consider instinct, which manifests in life due to genetic memory, to be a form of knowledge, then I think we may have access to a feeling of knowing, which is not based on reason, and yet which may be valid. Just a thought.

What do you suppose it feels like to be aware of a genetic memory?

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When I think of Scotland, I think of castles and golf and mist. And the damn british. What do you think of?
Though the question was not addressed to me... I think of William Wallace.
" the damn British" note I added a capital to your quote for " british" do you have a trace of french blood somewhere?
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Old 06-07-2003, 09:01 AM   #107
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Originally posted by Nowhere357
If we consider instinct, which manifests in life due to genetic memory, to be a form of knowledge, then I think we may have access to a feeling of knowing, which is not based on reason, and yet which may be valid. Just a thought.
Hmmm....interesting point. At the genetic level, the code could be spoken about as a physical 'memory' in a metaphorical sense, yes.

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What do you suppose it feels like to be aware of a genetic memory?
I don't think I am aware of my genetic codes. Again, I think we need to be aware that the phrase 'genetic memory' is a metaphor for what's going on inside of us. When we talk about genes, etc., then we're into the realm of language, and hence, reason. Direct access to emotions and genes would seem to be limited by the fact that we use a linguistic system that represents them.

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When I think of Scotland, I think of castles and golf and mist. And the damn british. What do you think of?
My mother and father; my ancestry; my roots....
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Old 06-07-2003, 11:23 AM   #108
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Just popping in again for a quicky. Still on aol dial up. So far has cost me an extra $5. Not breaking me yet.

Interesting discussion so far. I think the "legitimate irrationals" (at least on religious and some other subjects) are winning so far.

PS ------- A lot of people dislike the Brits and justifiably so. Definitely the Scots---and the Irish------and of course their long time enemies, the French. I am half Brit in ancestry myself------but I usually take the French anti-Brit side.
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Old 06-07-2003, 11:40 AM   #109
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Originally posted by Rational BAC
Just popping in again for a quicky. Still on aol dial up. So far has cost me an extra $5. Not breaking me yet.

Interesting discussion so far. I think the "legitimate irrationals" (at least on religious and some other subjects) are winning so far.

PS ------- A lot of people dislike the Brits and justifiably so. Definitely the Scots---and the Irish------and of course their long time enemies, the French. I am half Brit in ancestry myself------but I usually take the French anti-Brit side.
oh we just like to nag at our British neighbors as they enjoy nagging at us. IMO there is nothing really justifyable in disliking an entire nation.
Even during WW2, some french prisonners who were dispatched to work on German farms as free labor built relationships with the german farmers.
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Old 06-07-2003, 12:23 PM   #110
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Nowhere, I don't really understand where you are going with this emotion business. It sounds like you are trying to say that God exists because you want him to. That somehow your emotions are proof of external reality. Actually it's coming across that your emotions are the cause of external reality but that's too "irrational" even for this thread, so I must be wrong.
Please explain how a Theist's emotional state is a rational indicator of the existence of a God. And while you are at it you might explain why an Atheists emotional state is invalid on this topic.
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