JERDOG

In mathew and in mark jesus is quoted as saying.


13:30
Verily I say unto you, that this generation shall not pass, till all these things be done.

Wellit has been 2000 years and I don't think I would hold my breath right now a wait for it to happen. How do apologist reply to this?

Magus55

This quote has been beaten to death on this board - Mark9950 uses this lame argument constantly. How about reading the Bible and doing research for yourself instead of claiming its a contradiction when you are clueless to the meaning?

The verse is during Jesus' transfiguration. If you read the previous verses,you would see that Jesus is describing the end times, and what signs to look out for. He is telling the Apostles what to write down for the future generation. Jesus is sayng, this generation ( the one he is speaking about when describing the end times to come in the future), shall not pass until these things are done. In other words, the generation that sees the end times, will not pass, until the end times signs that Jesus describes are fulfilled. It has NOTHING to do with the Apostles, or their generation.

We talk like that fairly often. If you are among friends, and you are describing another person not present, to your friends, you might say - " you know, this guy did some dumb things when he was younger" , now is that referring to the other person, not present, or one of your friends that are with you? "This guy", takes the place of saying a proper name or another pronoun. Its the same as saying, you know, John did some dumb things, or you know, He did some dumb things, except less formal as though describing a stranger.

Its the same thing in that verse.

Steven Carr

What a wonderful prophecy!

The generation that sees the end times will be the generation living in the end times!

Mark 13:29 'Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that it is near, right at the door.'

Who was the 'you' that Jesus was talking to?

You are the expert on pronouns. If I talk to somebody and say 'You will see these things happening', am I addressing him with this 'you', or am I talking about people who are not even born yet?

Amos

If salvation is native to man each and every man in each generation will/shall/might have his own tribulation. I write "will/shall/might" because we must be chosen first and so if we do not agree with this we probably were not chosen.

Magus55

Um, the prophecy isn't those who see the end times, are living in the end times - its the generation that sees the end times, will not disappear/die until they are fulfilled edited by moderator

Who do you think Jesus is talking to? He is dictating His message to the Apostles - when the Apostles write Jesus said " Even so, when you see these things happening...", the people that read it ( whoever reads the Bible) will know its addressed to them, if they see the end times signs that Jesus describes.

This really is not that difficult.

judge

Evreything happened 2000 years ago.
Which parts do you think we are still waiting for?

The view that everything did in fact haapen is usually called "pretrism" or "full preterism"

Family Man

Actually, Magus, if you read the entire chapter, you'll realize that Jesus never specifies that "this generation" is the generation that lives at the end times. He merely refers to "this generation", which clearly implies the generation living at the time that he is speaking. That he is speaking about the signs clearly implies that the signs were expected during the listeners lifetime.

We do talk like this all the time, but this completely blows your argument. When we talk about "this guy" it is clearly someone we know or know of (he lived at the same time as us). If not, we must specify that "this guy" belongs in the past or the future. The point being that Jesus's reference makes no sense unless it refers to the generation living at that time.

Nor did Jesus make it clear that he is dictating a statement. The apostles asked a question and Jesus answered them directly. This is simply a way to avoid seeing the obvious: it was a failed prophecy.

In short, the only one peddling a lame argument is yourself.

Steven Carr

It is always nice to see the ridiculous nature of Christian apologetics.

Pronouns don't mean anything to them. Jesus switches from second person to third person, and Magus says Jesus was talking about the same people.


Why, Magus himself gave the example, that somebody might say
" you know, this guy did some dumb things when he was younger" , and Magus himself said that 'you' and 'this guy' were different people.

Just one post later, he reverses himself 180 degrees and
says that 'you' and a third person pronoun are different people.

Why did Jesus not just say 'To whom it may concern....', when he was 'dictating'?

No, he told the Apostles 'When YOU see these things' , and by you he meant the people he was speaking to.

Jesus said :- 'You will be handed over to the local councils and flogged in the synagogues.'

And Magus now claims that by 'you', Jesus meant the generation living in the end times!

It seems that when it happens, we are all going to be flogged in the synagogues!

Steven Carr

Here are bits of Mark 13, where judge claims 'everything happened'?


'17How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 18Pray that this will not take place in winter, 19because those will be days of distress unequaled from the beginning, when God created the world, until now--and never to be equaled again.

What distress happened 2000 years ago, never to be equalled again? What happened 2000 years ago, that Asuchwitz, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, were not their equal in distress?

26"At that time men will see the Son of Man coming in clouds with great power and glory. 27And he will send his angels and gather his elect from the four winds, from the ends of the earth to the ends of the heavens.

Who saw the Son of Man coming in clouds? When were the elect gathered from the ends of the earth?

Family Man

At any rate, Jerdog, Magus tells you how Christians respond to that, as bizarre as it is.