Queen of Swords

Originally posted by 7thangel
And as far as I am concern, I really think that he is honest, maybe he's mistaken, but surely honest.

And as far as I am concerned, I do not consider it honest to turn a blind eye to one's own shortcomings while generalizing against/insulting other people.

It is not just accepting Him of His existence, but also of understanding Him of His power of all things. And making correcting us through circumstances is surely better IMO.

I repeat : torture does not endear the torturer towards me. I think an omnipotent god should find better ways to "correct" people than to inflict a "high degree of suffering" on them. I wonder if maybe this god just likes watching people suffer.

The thing is He will do so if you are chosen.

You mean that although you are privy enough to his plans to know about the "high degree of suffering", you can't give me any details about this agony?

That's too bad. Also implausible.

Such behaviour you are showing is just mere sarcasm,

The sequel to C. S. Lewis's Mere Christianity.

and I guess that is not even a intellectual way of dealing about the matter.

And claiming that one's deity promises a "high degree of suffering" (without producing any evidence to back up this claim) is?

You must define "intellectual" for me some time.

I have to accept the reality that the evil things that existed were very much beneficial to humanity.

Good for you. I don't.

But to say that God promotes this evil things instead of being a tool for us to be in better state of being is, IMO, just ignorance of the concept of Godhead.

You worship a tool?

That's really sad. I'm afraid I cannot worship a tool. I hope you are very happy worshipping your tool which inflicts a "high degree of suffering" on people. Would that make it a very sharp kind of tool?

Honestly, I really cannot convince you of something you are ignorant of.

You certainly can't convince me without evidence. Assertions, especially those verging on the inane, just don't have the same effect.

Magus55

You haven't won any battle QoS, get off your high horse already. I don't bother responding to most atheist "take this test so we can insult your God more" because all you guys do is ignore the evidence and info we provide, its a waste of time responding to those ( all though with your attitude its a waste of time responding to you too).

We may not be able to prove God and the Bible 100% undeniably, but by the same token you can't do didly to disprove it, so if anything we are at a stalemate.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by Magus55
You haven't won any battle QoS, get off your high horse already.

If you decline to respond, I hold the field. Game, set and match.

I don't bother responding

Translation : you can't respond. You have no answers.

to most atheist "take this test so we can insult your God more"

because insults make baby Jesus cry.

because all you guys do is ignore the evidence and info we provide

Au contraire, to me you have provided no evidence - par for the course.

its a waste of time responding to those ( all though with your attitude its a waste of time responding to you too).

All the more strange that you responded to me; I can only assume that you either have a great deal of time to waste or that you were not being accurate/honest in that statement.

Which is it, Magus? Do tell.

We may not be able to prove God and the Bible 100% undeniably, but by the same token you can't do didly to disprove it, so if anything we are at a stalemate.

Wrong again (alas). The burden of proof is on the person who makes the claim, so it's up to you to make a case for your deity-of-choice. It's not up to me to disprove anything. If you are not capable of making a case for your deity-of-choice, you lose. It's been real nice playing with you but really, can you try a bit harder next time?

Cthulhu

The only thing you have proven is that you don't have the remotest clue as to what constitutes proof.

All you provide is dogmatic bullshit and mindless platitudes.

Dr Rick

We can't both bash your rantings and "insult your God more" while simultaneously ignoring the "evidence and info" you provide.

You ignore our replies to your preaching; which is too bad because you could learn some critical thinking skills if you had the mind to.

You're just posting more irrationality. As QoS pointed-out, this is another of your logical fallacies: "shifting the burden of proof."

There are so many inaccurate descriptions and predictions in the Bible (the destruction of Tyre, the return of Christ within the lifespans of those alive at the time of the crucifixation, rabbits chewing cud, four-legged flying animals, worldwide floods, etc.) that one lucky guess does not suddenly make the whole thing a reliable authority.

Rick

7thangel

Wait, again, I do not know in particular what the insulting all about. But l guess, you settle that with Maguss itself.

Honestly, yes honestly, I did not use the word "torture." Chastisement is a better word. And, secondly, I mentioned "high degree of suffering" with reference to the degree of chastisement for atheists for to be converted to Christianity. And the truth about it is that some some were converted when they see their love ones suffer and hope for their healing.

I just want to mention that not giving attention to someone can sometimes be very traumatic unto them. And of the specifics, I really do not know.

I guess you should do better than that.

See, you missed the main point why I mentioned high degree of suffering.

Any person who only have knowledge of only good is insane.

Did I say worship a tool? God maybe punishing your cognitive ability. Maybe you are already suffering.

Didn't you think that it will be a very stupid idea for me to say that I worship a tool? Hey, honestly, that's bizarre. You probably is after winning the argument, and no interest on intellectual conversation.

Well, you misunderstood me by thinking I worship a tool, I cannot foretell what further things you misunderstood from my post. You see, I did not say I have no evidence, rather it is because you are ignorant of what I am saying. No matter what evidences I lay, if you are ignorant, it would not work. So it is not about convincing you with evidences.

Elvithriel

Any god that would punish his creation FOREVER for something he knew they would do before he created the universe isn't worthy of worship from anyone.

7thangel, without a god what is the meaning of life?

The majority of Humans feel the need to be loved, for there to be purpose to their lives and the idea of a god gives people both of these things in addition to removing the fear of death and/of life.

The thing is to have a purpose you don't need a god, to be loved you don't need a god. If you want to know the real meaning of life I will tell you the answer is not in a book and it's not up in the sky, it's down here on Earth with the rest of us, it always was.

Queen of Swords

Originally posted by 7thangel
Wait, again, I do not know in particular what the insulting all about. But l guess, you settle that with Maguss itself.

It is insulting to make sweeping generalizations against a group. I think you can see that occurring here.

Honestly, yes honestly, I did not use the word "torture."

I never said you did. A "high degree of suffering" sounds like torture to me.

Chastisement is a better word.

No doubt to the person doing the torturing and the people who support him. Torture sounds like such an ugly word, doesn't it? Chastisement sounds better. Maybe we could even call it "correction" or "education" or "help". Yes, that's much better. God helps people through inflicting a high degree of suffering on them.

And, secondly, I mentioned "high degree of suffering" with reference to the degree of chastisement for atheists for to be converted to Christianity.

Just like how indigenous people were converted to Catholicism - either accept the Truth or burn at the stake.

Nothing changes in the vicious, brutal world of religion, apparently.

And the truth about it is that some some were converted when they see their love ones suffer and hope for their healing.

Basically, this amounts to torturing someone's family and telling them that the torture will end if they just give in and lick the ground at the torturer's feet.

I just want to mention that not giving attention to someone can sometimes be very traumatic unto them.

And who is this person who's supposed to be suffering the trauma? Is it traumatic to your god that I don't happen to worship him?

And of the specifics, I really do not know.

How is it you know that your god will inflict a "high degree of suffering", then? How do you define a "high degree of suffering" and how do you separate it from a "moderate degree of suffering"?

I guess you should do better than that.

I guess you should look to the plank in your own eye.

See, you missed the main point why I mentioned high degree of suffering.

So what is this point?

Also, you evaded my question. I will repost it for you.

Do try to address this, would you?

Any person who only have knowledge of only good is insane.

Well, you might know more about insanity than I would. But since you have missed the point entirely, I will restate it : you have to believe that suffering is good for people. I don't. I can believe that suffering exists without necessarily thinking that wow, it's the best darn thing out there for making lives just wonderful.

Did I say worship a tool?

You called your god a tool. Do you not worship him?

God maybe punishing your cognitive ability.

At least he's not affecting my spelling.

Maybe you are already suffering.

Yes... boo-hoo... high degree of suffering meted out by toolgod... waaah!

Didn't you think that it will be a very stupid idea for me to say that I worship a tool? Hey, honestly, that's bizarre.

You referred to your god as a tool. Hey, honestly, that's bizarre.

You probably is after winning the argument, and no interest on intellectual conversation.

I probably is what? And come on, if I wanted intellectual conversation I would hardly be talking to you, now would I?

Well, you misunderstood me by thinking I worship a tool, I cannot foretell what further things you misunderstood from my post.

Depends. What else did you call your deity-of-choice, besides a tool?

You see, I did not say I have no evidence,

You certainly didn't produce any. If you have it, either show it or stop making assertions.

rather it is because you are ignorant of what I am saying. No matter what evidences I lay, if you are ignorant, it would not work.

In other words, you don't have any evidence, so you pretend that evidence is irrelevant. Nice try.

Anyway, I have no idea why you continue to talk to a person whom you keep stating is ignorant. Perhaps you enjoy that kind of thing?

So it is not about convincing you with evidences.

No, it's more like covering up your complete lack of evidence.

Thor Q. Mada

The profecies of that other idiot smoking hash called Nostradamus, are arguably as true as some of the crap in the OT. I mean they are all usable after the events not before, and the reason for that is that they are written in such a ramlbing style (for reasons above) that they can be used to prove eveything.
Magus 55 is suffering from a dangerous form of arrogance which blinds people and leads to religious fanatism. He needs help. Let's be kind and understanding to him.

7thangel

Originally posted by Elvithriel
Any god that would punish his creation FOREVER for something he knew they would do before he created the universe isn't worthy of worship from anyone.

I do not believe in the literal hell. I mentioned high degree of punishment for atheists to be converted, not punishing them eternally.

7thangel, without a god what is the meaning of life?

Without God there will be no eternal life. Temporal life will make life of temporal meaning. And to my understanding, it promotes chaos to humanity.

The majority of Humans feel the need to be loved, for there to be purpose to their lives and the idea of a god gives people both of these things in addition to removing the fear of death and/of life.

Actually, "all" humans need love. Unfortunately many do not recognize true love, and the lack of understanding about love complicates us.

The thing is to have a purpose you don't need a god, to be loved you don't need a god. If you want to know the real meaning of life I will tell you the answer is not in a book and it's not up in the sky, it's down here on Earth with the rest of us, it always was.

Humans need reassurance and peace. Unfortunately, humanity cannot provide such assurance and peace. Just look what is happening now. In times like these, we put our peace on the existence of God, that there will be an end of evil in His appointed time.