I'd be interested if you could provide an example or two.

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> What is 'genuine philosophy'? LOL....

1 a (1) : all learning exclusive of technical precepts and practical arts (2) : the sciences and liberal arts exclusive of medicine, law, and theology <a doctor of philosophy> (3) : the 4-year college course of a major seminary b (1) archaic : PHYSICAL SCIENCE (2) : ETHICS c : a discipline comprising as its core logic, aesthetics, ethics, metaphysics, and epistemology
2 a : pursuit of wisdom b : a search for a general understanding of values and reality by chiefly speculative rather than observational means c : an analysis of the grounds of and concepts expressing fundamental beliefs
3 a : a system of philosophical concepts b : a theory underlying or regarding a sphere of activity or thought <the philosophy of war> <philosophy of science>
4 a : the most general beliefs, concepts, and attitudes of an individual or group b : calmness of temper and judgment befitting a philosopher [/b][/quote]

CQAS

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<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2"> Zen And The Art Of Motorcycle Maintenance is about zen in the sense that. "Zen is your everyday life."

By that definition, we could have "Zen and the Art of Gassing Jews with Cyclon B", say absolutely nothing whatsoever about any sort of Buddhism at all, let alone Zen Buddhism and it would still be a fantastic book of Zen because stomping about in jackboots screaming "Raus raus schnell schnell!" was part of everyday life for the concentration camp guards who met the trains bringing in the new "clients" of Auschwitz.

Namaste

[This message has been edited by Waning Moon Conrad (edited May 25, 2001).]

DAMN! That's the second time I've been wrong in this incarnation. The first time was when I thought I'd made a mistake!

Um, I didn't see him state that Paramahansa was not authoritative BECAUSE he was from India, so why are you specifying this is his criteria?

Straw man time..

Unfortunately it was a long time ago when I was in college but I'm sure if you look at any college syllabus for eastern studies,you will see what I am referring to.

Yes, Zen is your 'everyday life' as anyone who understands Zen would surely know. Alas, using an example of Nazis as you did says nothing about Zen but speaks volumes about your own lack of spirituality.

namaste, 'We are undone'. Ram Dass

Absolutely correct IMHO....

'Our own life is the instrument with which we experiment with truth." Thich Nat Han

namaste,

That was implied in his remark otherwise he had no valid point at all! IMHO....

namaste,

If the person who told me about the book in question is actually correct, then it is a whimsical story with vaguely spiritual and vaguely philosophical platitudes and no internally coherent, systematic exposition of Zen Buddhist philosophy whatsoever.

If however, this is true and yet it still remains a valid teaching of Zen because Zen is about everyday life, then my Nazi example stands because Zen is everyday life and whatever happens in everyday life IS Zen and this necessarily includes everyday life at Auschwitz.

Or did you perhaps mean to say that Zen is everyday life if you're a Zen practitioner who's practicing Zen in everyday life?

Perhaps you meant to say something about the integration of spiritual practice into everyday life rather than restricting it to the shrine and cushion. If this is what you meant to say, then perhaps you could have said it a bit more clearly.

If you literally meant everyday life for absolutely everyone, then the Zen with Jackboots example works simply because it does....there is no restricting Zen to a time and place that suits us because of our precious sensibilities.

If Zen is absolutely every moment of everyday life for absolutely everyone, then you can't keep it out of Auschwitz, Mauthausen, Treblinka etc.

Trying to, makes about as much sense as alleging the existence of an omnipresent god and then saying in the next breath that his presence does not permeate the turd you've just pumped from your bowels and flushed down the sewer. If he's omnipresent, then he's right there in the S bend as well as the jewel studded velvet blackness of deep space and the flower encrusted meadows ornamented with dancing butterflies!

If Zen is everyday life every day, for everyone whether they're Zen practitioners or not then sorry but it's in the most hideous and banal places and times as well as the most peaceful and lovely.

Condemning somebody as being spiritually retarded because that person points out an uncomfortable consequence of a premise or belief; can often be a manifestation of the type of opinionated political correctness that seeks to make spirituality soft and gentle, swaddled in cotton wool, always comforting, never challenging....something nice and soft and oh so safe.

It is a type of moral bullying that betrays the sort of shallowness and arrogance that speaks volumes about a lack of spirituality and understanding on the part of the bully, rather than the person he attempts to make his victim.

Guten aben.

'Who undoes the undoers?' -Dam Crass



[This message has been edited by Waning Moon Conrad (edited May 26, 2001).]

Somehow I don't think your intentions were good when you posted your Nazi remark.
What a sorry attempt at rationalization for your lack of knowledge and poor attitude.

namaste,



[This message has been edited by dr wu (edited May 26, 2001).]

The undone undo themselves!

You don't think at all, that's the point! You couldn't cope with an unfortunate consequence of your hasty platitude about Zen being everyday life, you made a smug and bullying judgment, it didn't work so now you're trying to cover it up with supercilious, self-righteous bluster in a desperate attempt to save face.

What lack of knowledge are you referring to here Wu? You don't know what I know or don't know! You're really just betraying your own puerility here.

As for attitude, well yours does seem rather self-righteous, puffed up with moral indignation over a thing of no consequence and just basically angry for someone who is soooooo advanced and soooooo spiritual.

Why don't you cut the holier and more knowledgable than thou crap and by doing so, grow up a little?

---------------------------------------------
The platitude came from a zen master(Chao-Chou)...don't you look silly?
I have no need to save face. Do you?
No, I don't know what you know except by the posts you make.
Your attitude leaves much to be desired also and I dare say your posts have contained much more anger than mine. Who's the bully here?

Let's agree to disagree on this and move on.
As you pointed out the path is one of equanimity, harmony and peace....

namaste,