Bokonon

I was actually debated with 2 seperate people.. they have since stopped with the following messages...

"It pretty much all comes down to this. Neither Evolution nor Creation can be proved 100% without a doubt. Neither of them can be disproved 100% without a doubt. So in both cases it comes down to a choice, a gamble, and a little blind faith. Noone is going to agree and this argument will go on and on. But when its all said and done, what made my choice easier was this.
If Evolution is correct, and there is no God, no angels, and were jsut sitting on earth with no purpose. When we die, thats the worst that can happen. If somone dies not beleiving in evolution, and it turns out to be correct. He faces the same destiny as the person who beleived.
If Creation is correct, and there is a God or gods, or higher power. If somone beleives in it then most likely he will be off to a better place. But the person who doesnt beleive in most all beliefs goes to a worse place.
I dont know bout any of you, but id rather be proven wrong, and nothing happen to me. THen proven wrong and spend an eternity in the "worse place." So if you ant to call me an idiot, or thickhead some more. THats fine. BUt im playing the odds. And i dont feel like losing alot when i can lose a lil' or nothing."

"im sorry i just cant be arsed. Bokenon, youre right i should have quoted my sources, believe me though i have not supplied any incorrect information in the slightest, but frankly i dont have time to dig up all the sources you need yet again. It makes no difference anyway. As i said earlier, we will never agree. In your reply to my statements you have come up with some utter crap, especially where the bible is concerned, but im not going to bother bringing it all out becase it will take a whole day and you wont agree with it anyway. At the end of the day, i believe what i believe because i see evidence of bible prophecy coming true in our time. I look around this planet and i see an amazing variety of species. I look at the human race and i see such complexity, the ability to love and feel, see and touch, taste and hear, ive looked into the intricate workings of our system and i just cant accept it was all an accident. You can. I look at the incredible balance of the physical forces and perfect expansion rate of the universe, the order of it laws, i see it as design, you see it as co-incidental. I see the fact that the big bang theory falls on its arse as there isnt even an explanation of its cause, youre happy to accept this. Im not. We just disagree. Of course you need a leap of faith to believe in creation, but personally speaking, i think you need a much larger leap of faith to believe in evolution. So there you have it. This will be my last post, not because i dont know what to reply to your previous ones, but because i just cant be bothered to keep going round in circles. I have taken in what youve said though, and if you feel there is sound basis for the big bang and evolution thats fair enough.

Oh and lost at sea, there is no 'worse place'. Hell is a church doctrine, definately not a bible teaching, just thought you should know. You've also raised some brilliant points, you should write a book or something

Take care people"

I'm preparing my responses now. This is fun.

Heading to Hell

Whoops - wrong end of the stick there. Sorry!
(extracts foot from mouth and wanders off in the vague direction of introductory forums)

EDIT

Oh, and my name. Yes. Well. It's meant to be ironic... I think I should probably change it. But actually, even if God did suddenly come down and say "Hey, I was here all along! Worship me!" I for one would (hopefully) turn my back and refuse, since I would refuse to worship even a proven god if that god has just stood by and let the world get like it is. Whatever the reason.
Does that mean I'm still an atheist?

[ June 22, 2002: Message edited by: Heading to Hell ]</p>

scigirl

Yes.

Liquidrage

In response to the original question.

The is no reason to state the expansion rate is perfect.
No one can truely predict what our universe would look like with slightly different variables. The part you are being asked to deal with is a non-issue. Ask Lovell (I know you can't hypothetical here) to explain how he changes the expansion rate without effecting the fundamental forces. He can't.
All that was shown was that if expansion was faster and if gravity was the same, x would happen. The problem is there is no way to change the rate of expansion without changing the force of gravity.

There is just no reason to conclude that our universe is perfect. And any speculation as to what is produced with different variables needs to consider all the variables. Not just one.

Heading to Hell

Phew.