MrDarwin

So... God allows the murderer to live, so that he may someday repent, even though God allows the victim to be killed, and therefore go to Hell (assuming the victim died unbelieving or unrepentant)? God preserves the free will of the criminal, even as God allows the criminals to take away the free will of their victims? It all sounds very odd to me.

I have to wonder, if Lesley Ann stopped believing in God because she received no help when she asked for it, does that mean she's damned to suffer eternally? By having her life cut short, did she lose her chance to repent?

CALDONIA

Prayer means: "to ask that the laws of the universe be annulled in behalf of a single petitioner confessedly unworthy."

Ambrose Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary, p.43

Debbie T

What? No Christians moved by my testimony? Anyone has anything to say about my praying and getting no answer? Do you think I asked the wrong way?

Just why didn't I get an answer? Didn't Jesus promise me one in the bible?

keyser_soze

you don't want the answer that the christians would give. They are conscienceless people. Pitiless. The christian god is a monster, who's acolytes gladly worship one who would WISH despair and brutality on his own creation. They are pathetic.

Debbie T

I don't think they are pathetic, but perhaps they dislike dealing with this because the bible is contradictory on this.

Kevin or Spurly accused people of praying for a Santa Claus list I suppose that is what he wants to believe instead of thinking about victims who believed in God and God didn't answer. (That may be too hard so avoidance may be the best way to go. Problem is when a Christian avoids these tough issues it doesn't make it go away and certainly makes their avoidance an answer too.) Even a comfort of words would have been nice. But deafening silence either says there is no god up there, or that this god is totally indifferent to innocent children's suffering. It would be nice if at least Kevin answered my post and explained what happened with his god?

beyelzu

When I was 5, my father had a stroke, I prayed for years every night for him to get better. He never really got any better. Never regained the useof the right side of his body.



I have told xians this when they talk about prayer, and all they ever respond with is some crap about god's will.

spurly

Debbie,

I thought I did answer your question. What it seems to boil down to for me is that we live in a fallen world. Our world is not perfect. Bad things will happen. Children get cancer. Wives get abused. People get shot in drive by shootings. Tornadoes wipe out entire communities. Do these facts negate the existence of God? Do these facts mean that he is powerless? The answer to both of those questions IMHO is no.

At one time we did live in Paradise. (Or at least our ancestors did). They had access to the tree of life, and as long as they lived in a love relationship with God, they would never die. The world was pristine, pure, perfect - just like the God who created it.

But then Paradise was lost. When that happened, God decided to let the consequences of the free will of man run their course. People began getting sick. People killed other people. Others were dishonest or adulterers. As people committed these atrocities our world began a downward spiral much to the delight and glee of the evil one. Satan's main desire is to break the heart of God by pulling as many people away from the love of God as he can. And he does a good job.

So we live in a fallen world. Does God ever break through the natural laws of our world and perform a miracle? Yes. But those times are few and far between. Why doesn't he do it more often? I don't know. However, I know if miracles were routine, they would not be miracles anymore. If anytime we asked God for something he automatically stepped in and answered our prayer, who wouldn't believe in God? It wouldn't take any faith at all to have a relationship with a God like that.

God wants us to come to him in faith. And one of the biggest miracles he does on this side of Paradise Regained is give us the strength, encouragement, love, and comfort we need to live as aliens in a hostile world.

If you read through the Scripture you will see that God never promised a life without suffering, pain, or heartache for his followers. As a matter of fact, the opposite is true. He said that those who follow him will suffer. They will be persecuted. They will be misunderstood.

By the way, when God answers a prayer of mine with a "no", I can take comfort in the fact that he answered Jesus and Paul with "no" on occasion too. Paul's response to the "no" answer. "My Grace is Sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness".

How do we live in a fallen world? By hanging on to the grace, love, mercy, and comfort of God. By looking forward to the time when Paradise will be regained. By living in faith - because that is what pleases our heavenly father.

I hope this answered your questions.

Kevin

JEST2ASK

People pray and God's response shows no observable difference than if random chance was directing the universe ... so exactly what points to the Existence of your (The J/C) God ????


At one time we did live in Paradise. (Or at least our ancestors did). They had access to the tree of life, and as long as they lived in a love relationship with God, they would never die. The world was pristine, pure, perfect - just like the God who created it.

Nice claim .... based on what?



...... SKIP.... Satan's main desire is to break the heart of God by pulling as many people away from the love of God as he can. And he does a good job.

And according to your sources remind me just who was it that created Satan and has power to overcome him, but is waiting until .....

Does God ever break through the natural laws of our world and perform a miracle? Yes. But those times are few and far between.
and when / what in your opinion was the last such intrventation?

If anytime we asked God for something he automatically stepped in and answered our prayer, who wouldn't believe in God? It wouldn't take any faith at all to have a relationship with a God like that.

So Moses , David, Abraham, Paul, Peter had little or no Faith?

Skip .....
If you read through the Scripture you will see that God never promised a life without suffering, pain, or heartache for his followers. As a matter of fact, the opposite is true. He said that those who follow him will suffer. They will be persecuted. They will be misunderstood.

Yes but there seem to be an awful lot of New Testament promises to his believers about what they could accomplish through prayer.

How do we live in a fallen world? By hanging on to the grace, love, mercy, and comfort of God. By looking forward to the time when Paradise will be regained. By living in faith - because that is what pleases our heavenly father.

I hope this answered your questions.

Kevin

Yes you did hidden in all the verbiage was the truth

[b] ... "I don't know"

One of the last sane

But Kevin, Lesley Ann Downey didn't live. The very hostile world she found herself in, killed her.
Lots of people pray to God and don't get what they need to live, they die. They often die horribly.
Who wants or needs a relationship with a callous, unheeding god like that anyway. Hell, I think most of the regulars on this board would do a better job of being a god than your God.

spurly

The problem is that many people want God to be like they want him to be, instead of allowing God to be who he is.

We can't reshape God in our image - we must accept him the way he has revealed himself to us.

Kevin