Volker.Doormann

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Hawkingfan

I know English is not your first language. Did you read ALL of this...

Yes, since there is no god, then he cannot be a liar. It is the men who wrote the bible who are liars. Let me just say that the OP was meant for bible-believing Christians, not you. Since Christians believe that god does not lie, I wanted to show in the bible where it is documented that he does. In order for me to do this, I (in a way) have to pre-suppose his existance.

I KNOW there is no god. BUT I AM PRE-SUPPOSING HIS EXISTENCE IN THIS THREAD TO PROVE THAT THE GOD ****AS DEPICTED IN THE BIBLE*****IS A LIAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I REPEAT--THIS THREAD IS FOR CHRISTIANS, NOT FOR YOU VOLKER.DOORMAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In the question, "Is god a liar?", I am speaking to Christians who pre-suppose god's existence and claim god is not a liar. In order to prove to THEM that he is, I have to use the bible.

YOU presented me with a strawman argument saying that since god does not exist, he is not a liar. I KNOW god does not exist. THAT IS NOT THE ISSUE!!!!!!!! STOP WAISTING MY TIME!!!

Volker.Doormann

"What to say of talks
That lead to veiling of Truth
Too much talk leads to chaos
Yet without talk how does one discuss
If you must; then talk with saints
With devils it is better to stay mum
Blessing it is to talk with the wise
Talking with stupid is waste of time
Says Kabir,
Half full is forever swaying
The fulfilled prefers staying calm"
(Kabir)

Abel Stable

Well, Volker.Doorman, that can only be responded to by another quote:

"This summer, the roses are blue; the wood is of glass. The earth, draped in its verdant cloak, makes as little impression upon me as a ghost. It is living and ceasing to live that are imaginary solutions. Existence is elsewhere."
Andre Breton


(I sure wish a christian would take a stab at Hawkingfan's contention.)

Appius

Just curious here, which versions are you talking about? I just now looked at the Vulgate(Latin), and it has nondum, which means not yet. Also in verse six there is another not yet.

Volker.Doormann

A reality created by the mind beyond reality as sur_reality may be a fun for the hungry intellect and a successful disturbance of the deep traces of dogmatic teaching in schools and high schools founded by Aristotle, but just as Christianity has fun with that super nature claims of wonders as an exclusive contract with nature for all labeled members, it lacks of any substance about truth and reality.

Kabir, (1398-1518 C.E.) who has rejected Hinduism and Islam ("There is no Hindu, nor is there a Musalman, but only brethren under God"), has song his poems, to disturb the deep traces of dogmatic religious teaching in his time because he has said, that there is a reality to find. One can see this maybe from this poem:

"There is nothing but water in the holy pools.
I know, I have been swimming in them.
All the gods sculpted of wood or ivory can't say a word.
I know, I have been crying out to them.
The Sacred books of the East are nothing but words,
I looked through their covers one day sideways.
What Kabir talks of is only what he has lived through.
Kabir says: If you have not lived through something,
It is not true."
(Kabir)

I do not see, that this has an other kick, as the hunger to emotional food, like the ancient process to Jesus initiated by Jewish scholars as it is dramatized in the gospel script as a great art of the time . The myths of the Jews in Hebrew language are not written to satisfy the intellectual greed to find and count bugs as proof for a uperiority in a psychological war against other labeled humans. On the contrary, the wonderful myths of the Pentateuch containing other perspectives as stupid social hierarchy claims in this silly world. That these perspectives never was understood by Christians and also not by many Jews is no reason to beat them for this and to take an abstruse strawmen position of no philosophical value.

Volker

Abel Stable

Volker, do you remember what this thread was supposed to be about? What does your friend Kabir have to do with the topic at hand? The only reason I posted the Andre Breton quote was because it has nothing to do with anything- just like your Kabir quote. Either start a new thread or look up the term "presupposition" so you can at least play devil's advocate to Hawkingfan's argument.

Also, you seemed so confident in saying that since God does not exist, he cannot be a liar. Well I agree that both God & Donald Duck do not exist as real beings - however, that does not mean their characters do not have attributes. I never liked Donald much because I thought he was always a bit of an asshole, couldn't speak clearly, and made lousy orange juice. Of course I know he isn't real, but he still has attributes. Otherwise, what is the point of fiction writing? Why would anyone bother reading The Grapes of Wrath or watching Twin Peaks? - people would just say: "this is rubbish, these people aren't real, what a waste of my time!" Hawkingfan doesn't even need to presuppose God's existence to make such allegations - the attributes are all available in the text. Christians always claim that their god is loving & honest & truthful- all of the time. The only way to counter that is by providing Biblical evidence. Once again, Hawkingfan is posing his question to Christians, not to unbelievers. You see what I mean?

Butters

Hawkingfan,

You should take this question to theology Web. I'm sure you'll get the answer you're looking for!

Volker.Doormann

Hardly no.

Volker

Abel Stable

I'm not following you either. What does Kabir have to do with the honesty of the god in the Bible? Am I missing some amazing, enlightening connection?

As for Andre, I figured it was on par with your quote as far as topicality goes. This thread is derailed anyway- it should be posted in a christian forum where it's more likely to draw some discussion.