Freethought & Rationalism Archive

Toto · 12-30-2001, 10:36 AM

Sorry, Oresta. Nothing personal. When I was at the University of Michigan in the 70's, professors would use Detroit as an example of urban devolution and the pernicious effect of Michigan's urban annexation laws.

<a href="http://www.detroithistorical.org/html/tours/sec06/con00_01.htm" target="_blank">Detroit history</a>

Quote:

1805

Following the great fire, hopes faded that Detroit would ever grow to be a great city. Later that year, Judge Augustus B. Woodward came to Detroit with Governor William Hull who had been sent to establish the new Territory of Michigan, with Detroit as its capitol. Woodward, after whom Detroit's main street is named, designed a new city. He mapped the streets from 120 to 200 feet wide, forming a series of hexagons with areas in between for public parks.

Detroit's motto became widely known: "Resurget Cineribus" (It shall rise again from the ashes) and "Speramus Meliora" (We hope for better things).

<a href="http://www.metrotimes.com/BestOfDetroit/2001/Urbanlife.asp" target="_blank">more recent top ten mottos</a>

Quote:

10. We're trying.
9. Takin' it to a whole new level.
8. Welcome to Detroit: Nobody moves, nobody gets hurt.
7. We are the city your parents warned you about.
6. No. 1 in job cuts!
5. Only the strong survive.
4. We lead the nation in orange barrels!
3. It's not just a town - it's an adventure.
2. Love it or leave it.
1. Still here after 300 years

Oresta · 12-31-2001, 03:44 AM

Good ones. My favorite was a poster that came out in 1967: Visit Detroit, it's a riot.

Seeker630 · 01-05-2002, 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Toto:
<strong>

You should be able to skip the scanning step then! You should be able to transfer the image directly to a computer. But like I say, I'm too old fashioned. Did your digital camera come with a manual?</strong>

Yes but it's not very good--I'll work on it and see if I can get them onto an MSN site or something. Maybe Geocities over at Yahoo.

Seeker630 · 01-05-2002, 07:03 AM

"Seeker630, Was it your downriver school board that had a couple of its members unsuccessfully try to get creationism into the curriculum? I remember it was a hot issue."

I am in Lincoln Park. In our school system over the last 4 years or so we've had two nationally reported incidents involving Wiccan high school students, one of whom committed suicide after being constantly tormented by her fellow Christian classmates. The 1st incident involved a girl wearing a Wiccan pentagram on a necklace and she won that one.

The other lawsuit on behalf of the parents of the deceased girl is still in the courts.

As far as I know, the only recent controversey over creationism/evolution in the downriver area was in the Melvindale school district. It was not over teaching either one per se. A local minister and his group were pressing to get creationist reading material into the school library. I think they prevailed but I'm not sure. I haven't heard anything about it in a while.

There may be others but I don't take the local paper so.............

Celsus · 01-05-2002, 01:56 PM

Nativity scenes? From a long(!) history of Christmas:

Forward:

Quote:

Even the Christian Nativity scene is originally pagan-representing the rebirth of the Sun-god on earth, born of a virgin at midnight on the 24th of December, laid in the manger of a stable, and visited by three gift-bearing kings or magicians.

Main Text:

Quote:

THE EGYPTIAN NATIVITY

Not the least of Christian borrowings from paganism is the Nativity story itself. Some 1,700 years BC its prototype was being applied to the first-born sons of the Pharaohs, the kings and sun-gods incarnate of Egypt. The legend is portrayed in four scenes on the wall of the Holy of Holies in the Temple of Amen at Luxor, built by Amenhotep III.

In the first scene the ibis-headed god Thoth, the Egyptian Gabriel, hand upraised in a manner reminiscent of Christian paintings of the Annunciation, hails the virgin queen Mut-em-ua (Mother-of-one!) and informs her that she is to bear a son (Amenhotep) in the character of Horus, the divine child. Next comes the Descent of the Holy Spirit. The god Kneph, "spirit" by name, assisted by the goddess Hathor, impregnates the virgin by holding the "ankh" symbol of life to her mouth. Conception is indicated in the queen's fuller form. The third scene is the nativity, with the mother seated on the stool then used in childbirth. A nurse holds the new-born child.

Finally, we have the Adoration. The child is enthroned, receiving gifts and homage from gods and men. Behind the ram-headed Kneph are three human figures, kneeling and offering gifts with one hand and life with the other.

The Egyptologist Samuel Sharpe declared: In this picture we have the Annunciation, the Conception, the Birth and the Adoration, as described in the first and second chapters of Luke's gospel; and as we have historical assurance that the chapters in Matthew's gospel which contain the miraculous birth are later additions, not in the earliest manuscripts, it seems probable that these two poetical chapters in Luke may also be unhistorical, and borrowed from the Egyptian accounts of the miraculous births of their kings.

Heh heh. Even if we lose, we win...

Edited to add link:
Pagan Christians

[ January 05, 2002: Message edited by: joejoejoe ]</p>

Oresta · 01-06-2002, 05:07 AM

As far as I know, the only recent controversey over creationism/evolution in the downriver area was in the Melvindale school district. It was not over teaching either one per se. A local minister and his group were pressing to get creationist reading material into the school library. I think they prevailed but I'm not sure. I haven't heard anything about it in a while.

The minister was a board of education member. He failed to be reelected

.
Edited for typos. Typoes?

[ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Oresta ]</p>

Prometevsberg · 01-10-2002, 08:53 AM

If I may point out this forum link on nativity scenes, for some cultural history you may not have leart in church:<a href="http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001039" target="_blank">http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001039</a>

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12-31-2001, 03:44 AM	#12
Oresta Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 1,107	Good ones. My favorite was a poster that came out in 1967: Visit Detroit, it's a riot.

01-05-2002, 07:03 AM	#14
Seeker630 Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: North America Posts: 1,624	"Seeker630, Was it your downriver school board that had a couple of its members unsuccessfully try to get creationism into the curriculum? I remember it was a hot issue." I am in Lincoln Park. In our school system over the last 4 years or so we've had two nationally reported incidents involving Wiccan high school students, one of whom committed suicide after being constantly tormented by her fellow Christian classmates. The 1st incident involved a girl wearing a Wiccan pentagram on a necklace and she won that one. The other lawsuit on behalf of the parents of the deceased girl is still in the courts. As far as I know, the only recent controversey over creationism/evolution in the downriver area was in the Melvindale school district. It was not over teaching either one per se. A local minister and his group were pressing to get creationist reading material into the school library. I think they prevailed but I'm not sure. I haven't heard anything about it in a while. There may be others but I don't take the local paper so.............

01-06-2002, 05:07 AM	#16
Oresta Veteran Member Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Detroit, MI Posts: 1,107	As far as I know, the only recent controversey over creationism/evolution in the downriver area was in the Melvindale school district. It was not over teaching either one per se. A local minister and his group were pressing to get creationist reading material into the school library. I think they prevailed but I'm not sure. I haven't heard anything about it in a while. The minister was a board of education member. He failed to be reelected . Edited for typos. Typoes? [ January 06, 2002: Message edited by: Oresta ]</p>

01-10-2002, 08:53 AM	#17
Prometevsberg Junior Member Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 86	If I may point out this forum link on nativity scenes, for some cultural history you may not have leart in church:<a href="http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001039" target="_blank">http://ii-f.ws/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=19&t=001039</a>

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