Freethought & Rationalism Archive

lpetrich · 12-09-2002, 10:29 AM

A good discussion of paleontology in antiquity is "The First Fossil Hunters", by Adrienne Mayor. Lots of fossils of mid-to-late-Cenozoic large mammals (elephants, rhinos, etc.) had been found -- and sometimes been interpreted as human. Some of the writers of the Bible may have come across these fossils and come to much the same conclusion.

ps418 · 12-09-2002, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by MrDarwin:


Patrick, what I find even more impressive is that they knew it was a woman solely by her footprint!

By the imprints of high-heel shoes perhaps? Or maybe they prayed over the footprint, and recieved a message from the Lord that it was made by a woman?

Marduk · 12-09-2002, 02:36 PM

“What verse are you getting your 450 foot figure from? “

Chapter 7
1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms
2and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they
3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was THREE THOUSAND ELLS: Who consumed
4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against
5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and
6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones.

An ell is 45 inches
3000 x 45 = 135000 /12 is 11,250 feet, I was wrong, they were over 1000 feet tall. oops

ps418 · 12-09-2002, 02:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck:
An ell is 45 inches
3000 x 45 = 135000 /12 is 11,250 feet, I was wrong, they were over 1000 feet tall. oops

Wow. That's even taller than the Sta-Puft Marshmallow Man. Of course, the evidence for the existence of the SPMM is much more compelling. . .

Azathoth · 12-11-2002, 09:06 AM

I've always wondered why some fundies have this huge variation in sizes for these things.I've seen claims,like the site listed here,claims,for Godzilla sized creatures,and others for ones that are in the 12 foot range,which is still physically impossible.

Why the huge difference?

Marduk · 12-11-2002, 02:47 PM

The Book of Enoch never made the final cut for being put into the Bible. Maybe even in those days the story seemed too silly.
In the Bible, the Nefilim or Anakim or Raphaim (they have many names as well as sizes) are more like 12 feet tall, Goliath for example, and they describe some other guy whose name I've forgotten as having a 13 foot long bed.
(Also see Gen: 6)
If you think about it' none of these giants should have survived the flood, but they pop up from time to time after the flood. They are mentioned in Numbers to.

Azathoth · 12-11-2002, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by marduck:
The Book of Enoch never made the final cut for being put into the Bible. Maybe even in those days the story seemed too silly.
In the Bible, the Nefilim or Anakim or Raphaim (they have many names as well as sizes) are more like 12 feet tall, Goliath for example, and they describe some other guy whose name I've forgotten as having a 13 foot long bed.
(Also see Gen: 6)
If you think about it' none of these giants should have survived the flood, but they pop up from time to time after the flood. They are mentioned in Numbers to.

That's what I think,as well.I figure they started going with smaller giants after a few bronze age skeptics gave them trouble

I'd read Enoch,but I'd thought there might be some other measurement in there pointing to really big giants that I'd missed.I was kind of hoping there was,as any fundy I argue with can just fall back on the "it's not in the bible" defense.

I believe the bed was from a guy named king og,if I remember right.

Still,even twelve foot humans,are physically impossible,even disregarding the whole fact that they popped up after the flood.

Goriller · 12-11-2002, 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Azathoth:
I believe the bed was from a guy named king og,if I remember right.

You do remember right. Deuteronomy 3:11 says, "For only Og king of Bashan remained of the rest of the giants. Behold! His bedstead was a bedstead of iron. Is it not in Rabbath of the sons of Ammon? Nine cubits was its length, and four cubits its width, according to the cubit of a man."

Goriller · 12-11-2002, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Azathoth:
I've always wondered why some fundies have this huge variation in sizes for these things.

They don't have a huge variation since no fundamentalist accepts the Book of Enoch as inspired by God.

Azathoth · 12-12-2002, 07:01 AM

They do have that variation,since that's what the goat herders believed back then.You can even see the vestiges of that belief in Numbers 13:33
And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants:and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight.

How big were those guys?

I already stated though,that fundies will always use the it's not in the Bible dodge,as far as the Enoch mesurements.It's a shame the writers of the bible didn't give a little more rope to hang themselves with.

Since you seem to be interested in this sort of nonsense,tell me,how does a giant of the stature given for Goliath,and Og,actually function?How is someone of that size possible?

Oh,one last thing,that site you listed has tried to install a spyware program called hotbar,both times I went there.The morals of a site owner who lets this happen are questionable,at best.I would use a different site to point people at.

[ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: Azathoth ]

12-12-2002, 07:01 AM	#30
Azathoth Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The centre of infinity Posts: 1,181	They do have that variation,since that's what the goat herders believed back then.You can even see the vestiges of that belief in Numbers 13:33 And there we saw the giants, the sons of Anak, which come of the giants:and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight. How big were those guys? I already stated though,that fundies will always use the it's not in the Bible dodge,as far as the Enoch mesurements.It's a shame the writers of the bible didn't give a little more rope to hang themselves with. Since you seem to be interested in this sort of nonsense,tell me,how does a giant of the stature given for Goliath,and Og,actually function?How is someone of that size possible? Oh,one last thing,that site you listed has tried to install a spyware program called hotbar,both times I went there.The morals of a site owner who lets this happen are questionable,at best.I would use a different site to point people at. [ December 12, 2002: Message edited by: Azathoth ]</p>

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12-09-2002, 10:29 AM	#21
lpetrich Contributor Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Lebanon, OR, USA Posts: 16,829	A good discussion of paleontology in antiquity is "The First Fossil Hunters", by Adrienne Mayor. Lots of fossils of mid-to-late-Cenozoic large mammals (elephants, rhinos, etc.) had been found -- and sometimes been interpreted as human. Some of the writers of the Bible may have come across these fossils and come to much the same conclusion.

12-09-2002, 02:36 PM	#23
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	“What verse are you getting your 450 foot figure from? “ Chapter 7 1 And all the others together with them took unto themselves wives, and each chose for himself one, and they began to go in unto them and to defile themselves with them, and they taught them charms 2and enchantments, and the cutting of roots, and made them acquainted with plants. And they 3 became pregnant, and they bare great giants, whose height was THREE THOUSAND ELLS: Who consumed 4 all the acquisitions of men. And when men could no longer sustain them, the giants turned against 5 them and devoured mankind. And they began to sin against birds, and beasts, and reptiles, and 6 fish, and to devour one another's flesh, and drink the blood. Then the earth laid accusation against the lawless ones. An ell is 45 inches 3000 x 45 = 135000 /12 is 11,250 feet, I was wrong, they were over 1000 feet tall. oops

12-11-2002, 09:06 AM	#25
Azathoth Veteran Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The centre of infinity Posts: 1,181	I've always wondered why some fundies have this huge variation in sizes for these things.I've seen claims,like the site listed here,claims,for Godzilla sized creatures,and others for ones that are in the 12 foot range,which is still physically impossible. Why the huge difference?

12-11-2002, 02:47 PM	#26
Marduk Veteran Member Join Date: Aug 2000 Location: the 10th planet Posts: 5,065	The Book of Enoch never made the final cut for being put into the Bible. Maybe even in those days the story seemed too silly. In the Bible, the Nefilim or Anakim or Raphaim (they have many names as well as sizes) are more like 12 feet tall, Goliath for example, and they describe some other guy whose name I've forgotten as having a 13 foot long bed. (Also see Gen: 6) If you think about it' none of these giants should have survived the flood, but they pop up from time to time after the flood. They are mentioned in Numbers to.

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