Adrian Selby

If the universe had only one chocolate in it, would it be chocolate? I'm not sure how one conscious brain makes the universe conscious? Perhaps I'm misreading you.

Also, I would not agree only that it is matter that is conscious, rather, it is specific arrangements of matter.

We must be operating with different definitions of 'self'. I'm not sure how 'I' could have existed in a multitude of possibilities. I'm also not sure how matter emulates physical processes. What do you mean by this, because it is confusing to read? How does something that is only a possibility already exist? More importantly, how can it be me? I either exist or I don't. I don't define me as both a 32 year old male Welshman with dark hair who has a brain blah blah blah AND a something that existed before I was conceived.

crocodile deathroll

Yes I agree it is the configuration of matter and not the matter itself that made as feel unique and separate from one another. But you had to have matter first.
If you want to build a house made of bricks you need the bricks first.

Amos

No, you need the idea of the house first, then you need your place and only then can you go get the bricks. Gen.1 is the idea, Gen.2 is your place, and Gen.3 is your work.

Nyssa

I suppose I concern myself with the question of why the soul exists in the mind of man, not whether or not it actually does or what exactly it can be defined as. In my mind, if you know why something exists, it's easier to define it.

My general thoughts/theories at the moment (subject to change, mind you):

1. The soul was something created by religion to help keep the people in check
2. The soul is a hopeful creation of man to give a purpose to life in general, reasons why.
3. The soul is the popular word used to define not our mind, heart, or body, but the combination of the three.
4. The soul is the popular word to define your essence, yourself.
5. The soul is something we use when we feel that we are more than a mind, heart, or body. When those three just aren't enough... (I'm going to stop at that before I go into a stream of consciousness post.)


If my soul just my life's memories, then I can only recall memories back as far as the age of 2.
Assuming you've seen "Dark City," in that theory, we are just the sum of our memories...

And, another quote that sprang to mind, loosely remembered, "Only those who are concerned with souls have them." (Piers Anthony, Spell for Chameleon)

But of course, i have met people (skipping those last two comments I made) that are only the sum of their body, heart, or mind. They have no more to them than one or two of those.

The neo-realist says the dead rock knows of the existance of the ground upon which it sits.
Of course, if never moved, it would be the last thing it would ever notice.

So, if a soul is unique to humans, and our bodies are just the vehicles for the souls to use to experience this universe, where do the new souls come from in ever expanding population of earth?
The sheer numbers of humans and animals that die each day should cover each birth. The death rate in humans is slowing, while the death rate in animals is growing. It seems to even itself out naturually.

We created our identity upon a blank slate which began during the second trimester of pregnacy.
I disagree. Our genetics affect who we are more than just giving us a blank slate. We are predetermined, at least physically, which can affect us mentally, especially with chemical imbalances. I don't believe in blank slates.

Mayhaps it is just the soul that gives us the excuse to be treated with basic human rights/diginities. The body is not enough, to say that we are equal because we both have bodies is untrue, because one is going to have a better functioning body than the other. The same with the mind, and possibly the heart. The soul is the one thing that cannot be judged with truth, because no one can rightfully judge it because they cannot measure it. True, they try, but there is no factual evidence. And then we are all equal, aren't we? Mayhaps the underclass created the notion of a soul...

"You idiots! Equal in heaven and the eyes of God, not here!!"

I feel, the way the two of you are discussing souls, that it has become a recycling plant. Which is creating some wonderful mental images. Anyhow.

Also, in that thought, we could speak of ourselves as recording devices, watching the world-line, as I believe you called it. Being emptied out and added to the collection of hollow containers to be placed back into motion to observe and collect, repeat cycle. Interesting thought...

And as a comment to what mroe than one of you has said... I also believe we define ourselves as what we are not. If there was only one chocolate, it would cease to be chocolate and begin to become "not (blank)."

And my cat is attacking my scanner. Dammit.

crocodile deathroll

If the next phase is the actual physical labor of building the house, then you need the bricks first
You can't build one with just ideas

excreationist

crocodile deathroll:
What do you think about what I wrote?

crocodile deathroll

Yes I agree, this is at a stage I think when the brain is wired up to acquire complex reasoning and the neurons are not so much slavishly obeying genetically incoded instructions to migrate to their respective position in their brains.
From about the age we start to formulate syntax from a lot genetically prompted baby talk babble we start to become immersed in our taught language and more have of an individual identity.


[ December 25, 2002: Message edited by: crocodile deathroll ]</p>

excreationist

crocodile deathroll:
Ok... sounds pretty scientific... I don't think you should use the term "soul" though since I don't think any scientists/philosophers that use scientific materialistic explanations for consciousness ever refer to consciousness (internal active linguistic/abstract awareness) as a person's "soul".

Answerer

Hi guys, I have a question, do you guys think that soul is just a collection of awareness and consciousness or that it is a super underlying sub-consciousness hidden within layers of 'exterior'(or daily) consciousness?

excreationist

Answerer:
I think a lot of people would see the awareness as being the "soul"... or you could talk about "that person has soul"... (that person intuitively knows how to groove). Perhaps for some or many people, "soul" also includes the memories and personality...
I think the word should be avoided in these discussions though since it doesn't have a clear definition and is often considered to be just a thing that travels between our life and the (hypothetical) afterlife.